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RUSH: I was watching CNN today, and they were doing a segment on delegate controversies, delegate selection controversies and how delegates vote and how they’re chosen and so forth.

And, by the way, Curly Haugland is back yet again, this unbound delegate in North Dakota, and he’s saying again (paraphrasing), “Look, you Trump people have got to understand, even if you think by virtue of election results in the primary, if you think that you have 1,237 or even more before we get to the convention you had better stop thinking that because those are just preliminary, and they are certified and judged to be legal, relevant, permissible at the convention.”

Remember, this is the guy who said you people are being misled by the media. The media makes you think you choose the nominee. You don’t; we do. Meaning RNC officials. So Curly’s out there, and he’s warning again that 1,237, it does not mean, he’s gotta get 1,237 after he gets to the convention and after we inspect all of those 1,237. Some of them may not be legal. Some of them may not hold up to challenges. It’s just an estimate right now. The hard number we won’t know, says Curly.

Anyway, I watched a Trumpist TV supporter, Scottie Nell Hughes I think is her name, and Bob Barr, former member of Congress, Georgia, he’s a delegate from Georgia, it was the funniest thing. (laughing) She is so convinced that this delegate thing has been rigged and she thinks that she’s gonna expose Barr as a cheater and a fraud and starts interrogating him. You have to hear it. I don’t want to characterize it beyond that.


RUSH: Let me set this up. We have Scottie Nell Hughes, who is a Trump spokeswoman, an analyst, and strategist. She and Katrina Pierson, a couple others, they show up on TV now and then to explain what’s going on in Trump world, and if there are any controversies to explain them and so forth.

And with Scottie Nell Hughes is Cruz supporter and former member of Congress Bob Barr, Republican, Georgia. They are talking about the delegate process nationwide. They’re talking about how delegates are chosen and how delegates are apportioned and had how delegates vote, all of this. And Barr is a delegate, Barr is a delegate for Cruz to the Republican convention from Georgia.

Scottie Nell Hughes, remember she’s a Trumpist, so she is convinced, like many of you in the audience are, that this whole delegate thing is rigged, that there haven’t been fair elections or any elections in some places, like Colorado. And yet we’ve got delegates, and Cruz has got some delegates in places, and he didn’t win the popular vote, so there has to be cheating.

Scottie Nell Hughes obviously has that — (interruption) what are you laughing at? (laughing) IÂ’m just setting it up so you understand the bite. Snerdley’s in there laughing himself silly. Just so you understand, I’m giving you the context of the bite. Scottie Nell Hughes is convinced that there’s all kinds of cheating going on out there, like many of you Trumpists are, and, furthermore, she is convinced that Barr is one of the guys out there cheating. And she thinks that she is about to expose him. We have this in two sound bites. Here is the first one.

HUGHES: It’s a corrupt system and I think a rigged system. Congressman Barr, aren’t you a delegate as well to the convention this year?

BARR: Yes, and I’ve already been getting nasty calls from your Trump supporters because —

HUGHES: Are you going as a Cruz delegate?

BARR: Sure I am. I’m a very strong supporter of Senator Cruz.

HUGHES: And that’s the thing. And who won the state of Georgia overwhelmingly? Mr. Trump in the popular vote.

BARR: And the fact of the matter is that the Georgia delegation will vote for Mr. Trump on the first ballot, which is according to the law.

HUGHES: And that includes you, correct? Does that include you as well? (crosstalk)

BARR: Now, you may all want to operate outside of the law, but the fact of the matter is that the laws in each state provide for delegates to vote on the first ballot at least for the winner of the primary. That will happen.

RUSH: See, she was convinced that she’s on the verge of exposing Barr as a fraud. He makes it plain to her exactly what’s going on. He’s a Cruz delegate but on the first ballot the Georgia delegation voting for Trump because the popular vote in Georgia was won by Trump. So he’s making it clear, but then she says, “Does that include you?” as though he’s somehow gonna worm away and vote for Cruz on the first ballot. “Does that include you, does that include you?”

And he’s, “You don’t understand, I’m trying to explain to you, yes, yes. See, you all may want to operate outside the law,” and then she, “Does that include you as well? You’re gonna vote for Trump, right, you’re gonna vote for Trump?” And she is just convinced because all — not all — many of these Trump people think that what’s gone on is illegal. And since Cruz lost Georgia, there’s no way any delegate should be voting for Cruz, ever, at the convention. Barr is a Cruz delegate and he’s gonna vote for Trump, he has to on the first ballot, but after that, which is where it broke down and she doesn’t seem to understand it.

Here is the next bite. In fact, you know what? Go back. For the context I need to play these things back-to-back. So as soon as the sound bite one ends here, just continue, hit number two immediately. Here they are in toto.

HUGHES: It’s a corrupt system and I think a rigged system. Congressman Barr, aren’t you a delegate as well to the convention this year?

BARR: Yes, and I’ve already been getting nasty calls from your Trump supporters because —

HUGHES: Are you going as a Cruz delegate?

BARR: Sure I am. I’m a very strong supporter of Senator Cruz.

HUGHES: And that’s the thing. And who won the state of Georgia overwhelmingly? Mr. Trump in the popular vote.

BARR: And the fact of the matter is that the Georgia delegation will vote for Mr. Trump on the first ballot, which is according to the law.

HUGHES: And that includes you, correct? Does that include you as well? (crosstalk)

BARR: Now, you may all want to operate outside of the law, but the fact of the matter is that the laws in each state provide for delegates to vote on the first ballot at least for the winner of the primary. That will happen.

(next bite)

HUGHES: So that means you’re actually going to vote for Mr. Trump on the first ballot because that’s — (crosstalk)

BARR: No. You don’t understand the process, which is part of the —

HUGHES: No, I do understand the process.

BARR: — problem with —


BARR: — Mr. Trump.

HUGHES: I do understand the process.

BARR: You don’t vote per se personally for a delegate. It’s the state —

HUGHES: You vote —

BARR: — delegation at large that does, but after the first ballot I intend to vote for Senator Cruz.

RUSH: All right, so it was fascinating to watch because she’s convinced that there’s cheating going on, she’s convinced. So she thought she was gonna expose Barr there. (imitating Hughes) “So you’re a Cruz guy and even you, even you are gonna vote for Trump?” and she expected him say, “No, no, I’m voting Cruz ’cause I’m a Cruz delegate.” He kept saying, “No, no, the delegation is going to vote for Trump, including me,” and the wind came out of her sails because she thought she was on the verge here of finally exposing what the Trump campaign has been alleging ever since Colorado. But it didn’t.


RUSH: We now welcome to the program Scottie Nell Hughes, who is one of the national spokesmen for the Donald Trump campaign. Scottie, welcome to the program. It’s great to have you here.

HUGHES: Thank you for having me and it’s such an honor to actually be one on one with you, Rush. I want to thank you for everything you do for this country and you’ve been doing for this country. I have to say, you’ve been a mentor of mine since probably the first day you went on the airwaves. And I’ve been raised right. I’ve been an EIB graduate since the day you went on the air.

RUSH: Well I appreciate that. And I want to tell people, you heard me characterize the sound bites we played with you and Congressman Barr today, and you think that I misinterpreted the point you were trying to make. And I don’t want that to be the case, so if I got it wrong, please correct me, tell me what I misunderstood.

HUGHES: Well, very rarely, Rush, do you ever get anything wrong, and I don’t necessarily think you got things wrong. It was a very short sound bite. It was the last few minutes of a segment that I was able to get in. But here was the point that I was really trying to make with Bob, and I have a lot of respect for him. The people of Georgia went to the polls on Election Day and they elected, they voted for a president. And people, just the general mind-set, someone who might not be into politics thought they were actually getting to vote for the Republican representative for that nomination.

They didn’t realize they were voting for a delegate spot. But either way they voted for a delegate spot that was supposed to be a Trump delegate spot. They voted for Mr. Trump in Georgia. Ted Cruz came in third. Marco Rubio came in second. When they went to the state convention, and this is where the idea that the rules are rigged, they’re not — (unintelligible) I never said that Cruz broke rules, I said that the rules are rigged to keep those, the politicians in power and to keep the outsiders out. And so what happened at these state conventions or these district conventions, is people like Bob Barr, a known Ted Cruz surrogate, was elected in a slot that a Trump person, that a Trump ally should have filled.

RUSH: Wait. No, no. That’s not the way the rules are set up. The way it works is when the primary takes place, people vote for the candidate, and then the primary is over, and in Georgia, the delegate selection is according to the delegate vote, not delegate selection, the delegate vote at the convention is determined by who wins the popular vote. Then at the convention, it’s a free-for-all, any candidate can go in there and try to get system delegates in that convention as he wants. On the first ballot, Bob Barr, even though he’s for Cruz, has to vote Trump, he can’t do anything else.

HUGHES: Absolutely, but the people of Georgia went to polls to think, they went to the polls thinking that they were going to vote for somebody, that their delegate who went to the national convention to represent the state of Georgia, were going to be allies of Donald Trump —


HUGHES: — and be supporters of Donald Trump. I’m not saying the rules were broken. I’m saying that the Cruz campaign definitely has always, they’re much more organized on the ground, especially in Georgia, they know the rules —

RUSH: Let me make sure I understand. Do you think, therefore, that because Mr. Trump won the Georgia primary, that he should get the vote of every Georgia delegate on every ballot at the convention?

HUGHES: By the percentage, I mean, isn’t that kind of how it was set up, you know, it’s we, the people, Rush, it’s not we the politicians. And, I mean, like I said, the rules were followed, there’s no doubt, I’m not saying that the rules weren’t followed, but that doesn’t make the rules right and it doesn’t mean necessarily that right in this case, you know, the Cruz campaign went in there, they were organized. They were actually set, they were actually organized to make sure they had their people were the ones that filled those delegate slots that were meant to be for Trump as a representative of what the people of Georgia voted for.

RUSH: Well, see, that’s not what the primary determines. The primary does not determine that the delegates are personally for whoever wins the primary. The delegates then get chosen in an entirely different process; and you’re right. I mean, it’s totally political inside baseball, how it happens.

HUGHES: But do you understand why people become disenfranchised and why they don’t like the political process because of this?

RUSH: Yeah, because, even though this is what happens for 150 years, it’s never been seen before because it’s never gotten to this point. We usually have a nominee by now. So all this stuff — there never are second and third ballots. The nominee’s chosen long before the convention ever starts, and so people don’t even see this, and so —

HUGHES: And you’re right, and then you look at the people of Georgia, and when Georgia was voted, we didn’t have Donald Trump overwhelmingly the winner at that point. I mean, it was (unintelligible) primaries.

RUSH: Right.

HUGHES: Ted Cruz still had a chance. He was expected to go through the south and win, and he didn’t, he didn’t win a single state. He came in third in many of them like Georgia.

RUSH: Right. And on the first ballot, Cruz is sunk in Georgia. There’s no way that the way people voted in Georgia can be subverted on the first ballot at the convention. Even Bob Barr, as you elucidated for him today, he has to vote for Trump even though he doesn’t want to.

HUGHES: Okay. So then here we go to the second and third ballot, which I still am optimistic that we’re not going to have to make, especially considering the momentum there is today. But here’s the thing, people at that convention, those are people that are part of the Georgia Republican Party or part of that — they’re inside politicians —

RUSH: Exactly. They could be somebody’s grandmother, they could be somebody’s donor, they could be somebody’s best friend. It’s always been that way.

HUGHES: Exactly. It’s who can ever motivate — the politicians have made these rules to keep the politicians in power and not necessarily let the people’s voice be heard —

RUSH: But Scottie, nobody kept your campaign out of that state convention. You could have gone in there and done exactly what Cruz did and aced him out on the second, third ballot. You could have —

HUGHES: You’re right. You’re right on that point, Rush, you’re absolutely right, the ground game for — you know, God forbid that we actually thought that the people’s voice was gonna be honored when it came to these areas. I know, isn’t that funny, (unintelligible) think of the people, especially on the Republican side. I mean, we don’t have superdelegates like the Democrats have, but it’s examples like this —

RUSH: Well, but you do. You do. You’ve got 200 unbound. They’re not called super, but you got 200 unbound on the first ballot that —

HUGHES: Well, (unintelligible), but I mean you’re seeing an example, and here’s really the problem that I have, as someone who’s been a part of the grassroots, as you’ve raised me to be listening to talk radio, is you have folks who put their heart and soul into putting out yard signs, making phone calls for their candidate, and they wanted that slot there, their candidate won rightfully —

RUSH: Look, I understand that. I don’t mean to interrupt, but my time is dwindling here and I’ve got a newfangled commercial break coming. What about New York? Trump gets 60% of the vote, and almost 90% of the delegates. How is that fair?

HUGHES: Well, I agree, once again, it was how the rules are written, but that’s not to say that those delegates now when they go into their individual little state conventions, as we’re finding out, are going to be a hundred percent Trump delegates. Who’s to say that the ground game in New York might not (unintelligible) favorable to Cruz? Again, this is the thing that we’re seeing in Louisiana. We saw it yesterday in Tennessee where you’re literally, the chairman of the rules committee that’s been put on there is actually a Cruz supporter, yet Trump overwhelming won Tennessee. It’s just a game that’s playing, but the game doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right, and it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s helping the people or representing the people, Rush. That’s the frustration.

RUSH: Well, but, I understand the frustration, but in that case there ought not even be state conventions. The delegates ought to be chosen by — just pick a number of people from the state to go, and every ballot vote the way the people voted in the primary, and in that you’d never have a second ballot, you’d never have a contested convention, you couldn’t, because whoever wins the popular vote by virtue of all these state primaries wins every ballot, that would be the outcome of what you’re suggesting happen here.

There all kinds of reasons why this system has been set up the way it is, and one of them is state sovereignty, the states have the right to choose the way the party is running in their own states. And they are fiefdoms, you’re right. Look, you guys are running against the Republican Party. Everybody understands that, and you’ve done a damn good job of it. Everybody understands that, too. But I just don’t think people are being deprived of the democrat process here, and you do. You’re gonna win the first ballot exactly as the rules say. And you’re gonna have a chance at wining and dining — by the way, these conventions are delegates that Cruz has supposedly gotten pledged to him, they can change their minds.

All Mr. Trump has to do is go in there and razzle and dazzle ’em somehow. I mean, nothing happens until it happens, and all this is just projection until the convention actually starts and all this stuff begins to happen. It isn’t over ’til it’s over, and I’m sure you guys know all that. Everybody dazzled with the way you’ve been running things here, Scottie, and I appreciate that you wanted to come here and make sure that I understood what you were talking about. I’m glad that we were able to get a hold of you for you to be able to do that, but I do have to go. Thanks, look, have a great weekend. I hope you have a — are you having fun doing this?

HUGHES: It has it’s perks, and sometimes it has its low points, like today. But it’s gonna get better. We’re gonna make America great again, Rush.

RUSH: Wait a minute, what was the low point, don’t tell me I was the low point today, no, no —

HUGHES: You were my low point. When your mentor, your professor of conservatism is the first one to scold you.

RUSH: Oh, oh —

HUGHES: I mean, that’s a low point.

RUSH: Now you just ruined my weekend. I’m never anybody’s low point. Oh, well, I promise to do better. I promise to. Scottie Nell Hughes of the Trump campaign. The more we talk, the more I am learning how people think about this. By the way, Scottie, people on the other side glass here are nodding their heads as you’re going through all this. So you’ve got people who think that you’re right about this.


RUSH: Sit tight, folks, sit tight. We are going to have somebody from the Cruz campaign on the program Monday. It’s all done. Everything’s cool. Fear not. I knew, I knew, I knew.

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