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RUSH: Jamie Gangel, who, I have been interviewed by Jamie Gangel on occasion. She’s good. She’s hard-hitting, but she’s fair, she’s good, and she interviewed Jeb. She got Jeb to speak, the first time Jeb spoke since he got out of the race essentially, a couple months ago. It was on Erin Burnett OutFront, special correspondent Jamie Gangel.

Do you know who her husband is? Daniel Silva, the great novelist. Yeah. Daniel Silva is her husband. Anyway, she interviews Jeb, and I think they were in Florida, and how many bites do we have here? Got a couple of them. She says, “In talking to establishment Republicans” — she begins her question and Jeb interrupts her. She says, “In talking to establishment Republicans –“

JEB: Who are the establishment Republicans?

GANGEL: I — (laughing) They. They.

JEB: Really, it’s interesting — it’s an interesting concept. Who has the power — I assume the establishment means the power brokers, right? Well, in the Republican Party we have fiefdoms, we have tribal leaders, maybe. There is no secret squirrel establishment that I’m aware of. Rush Limbaugh has as much power has Reince Priebus. There are people in the media that have enormous power. And, you know, the US Chamber of Commerce may have some power, but it pales by comparison to many others. The establishment is definitely — I think we need to redefine what that is.

RUSH: Is that not interesting? Not because he mentioned me. Here is a guy who everybody thinks is the establishment and was the preferred and chosen vehicle for the establishment to regain the White House, who’s now questioning the very existence of this establishment? “There is no secret squirrel society.” Don’t believe what you’ve heard about Skull and Bones. Don’t believe what you’ve heard about the New World Order. The media people far more powerful than even the Chamber of Commerce? Now, you know why they may think that?

Why would he say specifically that there are media people, he says here, you know, the Chamber of Commerce may have some power, but it pales by comparison to the others. Well, looked at one way from his standpoint, you might understand what he’s saying. What’s the Chamber want, what all these guys want, they want amnesty and they haven’t been able to get it yet. So they may be sitting there, damn it, damn it, frustrated, and who are they blaming?

Jeb is saying, there’s no establishment, I don’t know who it is, you guys keep putting me in the establishment, I got 2%, what do you mean I’m the establishment? I’m 5%, whatever it was. And then she said, “So let me put it this way. Talking to old political pros in the Republican Party, I found two camps. One camp getting around Trump, and they think he may have a chance of winning and beating Hillary. The other camp is called lose with Cruz. It’s stop Trump, but they don’t think Cruz can win and they think maybe it’s better for the party” to lose the White House in November and put itself back together rather than win with one of these two guys.”

JEB: Let’s form a third camp, which is to pick the person who can win the nomination — there’s only two people that can win the nomination right now, in my mind, Ted Cruz and Donald Trump, pick the one that has the higher probability of beating Hillary Clinton. And that’s Ted Cruz.

GANGEL: If Donald Trump is the nominee, should the Republican Party, will you, rally around him?

JEB: I am hopeful that he won’t be the nominee.

RUSH: She tried. She tried for a full minute to get him to admit that he would support Trump, and he wouldn’t do it.

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