RUSH: Susan in Thousand Oaks, California. I appreciate that you waited during that little interruption. Great to have you here, Susan.

CALLER: Hi, Rush.

RUSH: Hi.

CALLER: Listen, in my opinion, the only difference between Trump and Hillary Clinton is that Hillary has bigger hands.

RUSH: (laughing) How long have you been waiting to say that?

CALLER: Well, listen, I’m a never-Trump voter. I just cannot tolerate the thought of voting for him. I think they’re both opportunists, and I don’t think it really matters. People like to scream and say, “Hey, if you vote for –”

RUSH: Wait, wait, wait, wait. Well, hold it. You said both are opportunists. You mean Hillary and Trump are opportunists?

CALLER: Oh, sure. Yeah. They’re opportunists. I mean, look, Trump has changed his political affiliation five minutes. He just barely became a Republican again. I just don’t think we can believe a word that he says. He says whatever he needs to say to further himself. You know, and so does Hillary. They’re both opportunists, so how do you trust either of them?

RUSH: Okay. So given that you are passionate about this, where do you come down on it? I mean, the numbers are what they are. The math is what it is. Trump’s at 600 the some odd. Ted Cruz is a couple hundred behind. Everybody is waiting to see. I heard the Trump people say on TV today that if they win Arizona next week, it’s over.

CALLER: Well, I… My hope is that Cruz will team up with Kasich and that we can get that full vote of the never-Trump people.

RUSH: Kasich?

CALLER: What’s that?

RUSH: Did you say Kasich? Cruz team up with Kasich? What about Rubio?

CALLER: Well, I loved Rubio. I thought he was a class act. I thought he was a good person, but I don’t think that he can bring to the table what they need. I don’t think he could bring Florida to the table, but I think Kasich could bring Ohio. And, plus, if Trump were to team up with Kasich, I think we’re in trouble because I think Kasich will team up with anybody. And if Trump teamed up with Kasich, then I think we’d be in trouble.

RUSH: Okay. I know you’re passionate about this, and I know you’ve stridently opposed Trump. Tell me — and you’ve thought about it. I don’t mean to be putting you on the spot. Look, I realize you’re a caller. A host asks you to do something and you might… Don’t get nervous. You got plenty of time here. What do you think the best way…? I know you just said go out and hook up with Kasich. But what are the odds that Cruz can do this? Do you think he can do it before the convention?

CALLER: I think if he teams up with Kasich, he can do it before the convention. But, you know, I think he can, because I think people that are voting for Trump have really not vetted him, just like everybody fell after Obama. He wasn’t vetted. Do you realize that the press, as soon as Trump becomes the nominee, are gonna jump on all of his Mafia connections that he pretends don’t exist? I mean, you know, the whole connection with [Felix] Sater that everybody just ignores, you know, they’re gonna jump on everything. They’re holding back the BBC documentary until he becomes the nominee. And then they’re gonna trash him. Why are we not vetting him now before he becomes our nominee?

RUSH: By vetting him… I mean, there’s plenty of negative stuff out there about Trump already. You have a conservative group that is thinking of splintering off and going third-party, and they’re being quite open about their problems with Trump. I mean, we’ve had people call here and echo the things you’ve said about Trump’s supposed relationship and association with Mafia and other things. It’s not —

CALLER: Well, the thing is that everybody just keeps tiptoeing around it. I don’t think it’s exposed at all. I mean, there’s pictures of him with Sater who has Mafia ties, and he was his senior advisor and yet Trump after I will pretends, oh, I barely know him, I wouldn’t even-recognize him. How do we let him get away with saying stuff like that?

RUSH: Well, how did Obama get away with it? How did Clinton get away with saying stuff like that?

CALLER: Well, that’s the whole point. I mean, we sit back and say, “Why did we not vet Obama?” and we have a disaster on our hands.

RUSH: No. We did vet Obama. I did. I was blue in the face trying to tell people who the real Barack Obama was, and it didn’t matter, did it?

CALLER: Well, that’s true, but how do we…? You know, there’s the big question. Why do people just fall behind these charismatic people?

RUSH: Okay, now, Susan, if I may get… I don’t mean to be a little frustrated here ’cause I’m not. But I have spent more time, I think, on this program than anybody else combined seriously trying to explain to people why Trump has his supporters, who the supporters are, why they support Trump, and what is and what isn’t — and what are/what aren’t the ways to separate Trump’s supporters from him. And I’m here to tell you this is not the first time. All of the negatives that you come up with about Trump are not going to separate Trump’s supporters from him. It’s only going to secure the support even tighter. It’s gonna expand his support, in fact.

CALLER: Well, you know, my position — my feeling — is that one of the days that we separate people from their supporters is — and I hate to say this — you have to lower the respect level by mocking them. And that’s… You know, that’s where I come up with the only difference between Trump and Clinton is that Hillary has bigger hands. He hates that, and we have to mock him and take the respect factor out of it, because, I mean, think about it. Drudge got up there and put up old pictures of Rubio in the big chair to mock him, and he’s been completely ignoring Trump and all the places you could mock him on that… I mean, the whole fake steak thing.

RUSH: Why do you think that is? Why do you think that is?

CALLER: Oh, Drudge is in the tank.

RUSH: But why? Why is Drudge in the tank?

CALLER: Well, that’s a good question. Maybe, you know, for access. Maybe Trump has promised him something. Who knows? You know, but definitely all you gotta do is read Drudge and see all the attacks that he does on all the other candidates, and he completely ignored the whole fake steak infomercial that Trump did.

RUSH: The fake steak infomercial? You mean for Trump Steaks?

CALLER: Yeah, his pretend Trump Steaks that were really Bush Brothers steaks.

RUSH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know… Well, maybe it’s worth delving back into this. We mocked Obama here. We mocked Reverend Wright. But we have had more success mocking and making fun of the Clintons than I can tell you, and she’s still the Democrat front-runner, and she is going to be the Democrat nominee, no matter what. They have decided that this is her turn. You know, the mystery of why people support candidates, if there’s somebody that could ever figure this out, if there were this magic way to create support for a candidate, whoever came up with that would be determining who is president every year and would be a multimillionaire.

They would be the only consultant anybody would want to hire. But that person doesn’t exist because that methodology hasn’t yet been discovered, the definitive explanation for why candidates are supported by people. I ask myself every year. Even in this primary process, I asked myself, “Why were people supporting Ben Carson?” They knew he had no prayer, but they still stood with him. “Why were they supporting Kasich?” They knew he had no prayer. I look at all these conservative voters. Why didn’t they realize months ago the only hope and prayer they had was Ted Cruz?

Why did they hold out for so long and not unify? Why did…? They know going in. Every conservative worth his salt knows going in that the trick is to divide the conservative vote against the moderate that’s in the primaries. You divide the conservative vote, you divide the conservative money. This was Jeb Bush’s strategy. Soak up all the money, have all kinds of conservatives running against him. Split the vote, split the money, and win the war of attrition, even if you don’t win a majority of votes.

All the other conservatives combined, if you add ’em up are the majority, but they don’t get it ’cause they’re divided. Why did so many people on the conservative side not decide long ago to unify around one person? Everybody else get out; support that guy. If somebody can answer this question for me… I mean, I’ve got my own theories. But somewhere in here you’re going to have to admit the concept of self-interest. Why is John Kasich running around acting like he can actually win this thing? Why is John Kasich still in this thing?

The Cruz people desperately wanting a one-on-one with Trump to put into play the theory that there are more anti-Trump votes than pro-Trump votes remaining in these primaries, the theory being that all we need just one conservative against Trump and we’ll find out that conservative is gonna win every primary. Isn’t that the theory? You can ask these questions ’til the cows come home. You can find people to get mad at, you can get upset, you can think people don’t see it the way you do and maybe they’re not patriotic or as focused as you think they should be.

But you can’t take self-interest out of this. You can’t take ego out of it. You can’t take out the fact that all these people want the prize and think they are the best qualified to do it. Who knows? So at some point, you deal with what you get. Remember, Rumsfeld, a problem he got? “Well, you go to war with the army you have.” Remember the hell he caught for saying that? I, as a mayor of Realville, completely understood him. Everybody else was out there having cows. Anyway, Susan, I appreciate your time. I’m glad you spent so much time on the phone with me here with your thoughts.

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RUSH: Here’s Levi in Jackson, New Jersey. Great to have you, sir. Hello.

CALLER: Thank you, Rush, for taking my call.

RUSH: You bet.

CALLER: Two quick points. I’m not sure how this has not been discussed but it almost seems to me that John Kasich is in this race with Trump to prevent Cruz from taking it to a one-on-one against Trump, and he was offered something because once it’s a one-on-one against Cruz against Trump he’s gonna have to debate him and he’s gonna be able to lay out the policy how he’s different and he’ll be able to win. So Kasich it almost seems like is a spoiler for Cruz, and Trump wants him in that race, and who knows? Maybe Trump wanted him to win Ohio so he could keep him in, ’cause without winning Ohio, there would have been no justification for him to stay in.

RUSH: That wouldn’t have mattered. He would have stayed in. I’m convinced he would have stayed in. For my own reasons. What’s the other point you wanted to make?

CALLER: Oh, the other point I wanted to make is… You know, it’s actually two more points. It’s just amazing how all these… I don’t understand how these conservatives are teaming up with the establishment, you know, to take down Trump. I’m a Cruz supporter. But they’re all teaming up, you know, with the establishment when these establishment people have been suppressing the conservative movement for years. It’s just amazing how they would be teaming up with their own worst enemy. It’s just mind-boggling. And what I simply don’t understand is how come Cruz is not… You know, why can’t…? There has to be some way for Cruz to get out his message without all these meetings and with Paul Ryan and how to stop Trump. It’s not gonna happen though.

RUSH: Okay, what’s the other thing? I’ll get to those. We’re running out of time here, and the real reason I took your call —

CALLER: The article about John Podhoretz that he basically said in a nutshell that Trump was the avenger. It has nothing to do with that. People feel unshackled. Trump gives them a voice, and not only is he their voice, but he enables them to actually voice what they’ve been feeling — their frustration for years — when he unshackled them. They’re finally able to say all those things that they wanted always to say but couldn’t because they’re racist and then they’re bigots or whatnot, and they’re finally able to express themselves. He’s giving them… He’s taking away their shackles. It has nothing to do with, you know, oh —

RUSH: Look, let me react to this. I’ve only got 30 seconds here, and I want to react. He mentioned JPod, John Podhoretz. I shared with you a piece from Podhoretz yesterday. Podhoretz is one of the latest to weigh in on, “What the hell is going on here? Who are these Trump supporters? Why are they supporting Trump?” ‘Cause it doesn’t compute with establishment guys. And he came up with a theory, and his theory is that it’s not about making America great again. It’s not about trade deals for you Trump supporters.

It isn’t about making America great, ’cause you know Trump can’t do that. He says, Trump’s not gonna make… He isn’t gonna change anything. All Trump is to you is a punisher. You are supporting Trump ’cause Trump’s gonna go out and get even with these people that have made life miserable for you. He’s gonna get even with the banks. He’s gonna punish China. He’s gonna punish Muslims. He’s gonna punish Mexicans. He’s gonna get even with the people who’ve been screwing you. That’s his theory bottled down to its essence.

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RUSH: Here’s Tony in Leesburg, Florida, as we head back to the phones on Open Line Friday. Hi. Great to have you here.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. What a pleasure. Thanks for taking my call.

RUSH: You bet, sir.

CALLER: So I’m calling as somebody who voted for Ted Cruz in the primary, but I’m calling to say to Ted Cruz or to Cruz supporters or the whole anti-Trump movement to stop bashing Trump, that it’s not helping their case, and I think I can explain why people are gravitating towards Trump so much.

RUSH: Well, have at it. I didn’t think there was anything left to be said about that. But if you’ve got something new, have at it.

CALLER: Well, I just think it’s as simple as saying that Trump, more than anybody, is saying what people think and what they care about more and louder than anybody else. And if Ted Cruz or anybody else wants to win, they need to stop worrying about Trump and they need to start worrying about the issues that are important to people and start being as clear and as loud as Trump is about things.

RUSH: Okay, well, let’s look at some of the opposition to Trump and try to figure this out. As you know, there was a group yesterday of conservative leaders and the purpose of which was to maybe see if there’s anybody they could support as a third-party candidate, ’cause they just… No matter what, they will not vote for Trump. It would be a betrayal of everything they’ve ever believed in. It would be a betrayal of conservative principles. It would be a betrayal of everything they believe about the country. It will be betrayal of everything they’ve devoted their lives to. They can’t and won’t vote for Trump no matter what. And they’re gonna trying to find somebody third-party. Now, we all know what happens if there’s a third-party candidate on the right. We know what happens.

CALLER: Right.

RUSH: The Democrat candidate wins. Yet they are doing it because to them it’s a matter of honor and it’s a matter of principal. Then you have the two stories here that are somewhat conflicting. You’ve got Paul Ryan saying, “No, no, no. We’ll get behind Trump if it comes to that a hundred percent.” And then the very next story is about how they’re gonna try to take it away from Trump at a contested convention. So what do you think is really going on here? Is honor and principle triumphing over everything? That’s what we are being told is happening. If the opposition to Trump is principled and it’s based in honor, and that must trump everything — no pun intended.

CALLER: Well, people don’t trust that Trump is actually gonna do the things he says. I think that’s why you have this resistance against him. As a Cruz supporter, I’ve watched a lot of stuff on Trump, and I don’t feel great about it. You know, I would hope that he does the things that he says he would, but I think it’s worlds apart how much better he would be than Hillary Clinton.

RUSH: You think Trump would be better than Hillary, is what you said?

CALLER: By worlds apart, yeah. Absolutely.

RUSH: You are a Cruz supporter, but you think if Cruz wants to win, people need to stop bashing Trump and talk about issues that reach people in effective ways? That’s basically your point?

CALLER: Yeah. If they want to actually get people to get on board with Cruz, then he needs to be as loud as Trump is so that they know what he stands for and not just as an anti-Trump candidate, but as somebody who stands for something substantial. Talk about the IRS, for instance, and how he wants to get rid of that. He could talk —

RUSH: Wait a minute. Hold it a minute. Cruz says that in every speech. In every speech Cruz says he’s gonna repeal every word of Obamacare on day one. At noon on day one he’s gonna abolish the IRS. In every speech — every speech and during postelection night and at campaign appearances — he makes it clear issue after issue after issue what he’s gonna do. And yet you just said he needs to take those things. So he’s saying it. He’s made it abundantly clear. I mean, people that are paying attention know exactly what Ted Cruz stands for.

They know exactly what he’s going to do. He’s not hiding it in any way, shape, manner, or form. He’s not hiding his conservatism. He’s not hiding his devotion to God. He’s not hiding his morality. He’s shouting it from the rooftops. He’s making it abundantly clear to anybody who’s listening who he is, what he believes in, what he stands for, what he wants to do, and how he sees the country. We’re where we are. I mean, it’s not that… If I had to say anything, Cruz has been saying it.

Throughout this campaign, the Drive-By Media and Republican establishment has been treating Ted Cruz like he’s not even there, focusing on Jeb, then we focus on (obviously) Trump. But I mean, after that then we focus on Kasich. Now, Kasich has won one state. It’s amazing, isn’t it? After Tuesday night, after Super-Duper Tuesday or whatever, the guy that won one state, they shot a confetti gun at his head. He is getting all the coverage this week, outside of Trump. The guy’s won one state, 100-plus delegates. All the attention’s focused on him and what he means. And that’s very silly. Look at this debate.

Fox News wanted to have a debate, I guess it was next week. Trump said, “Nope. I’ve had it with debates. They can’t ask us anything they haven’t already asked us. They don’t have any answers we haven’t already given them. It’s a waste of time. I’m not doing any more debates.” Now, if Kasich was really in this to win it, you know what he would have done? Shown up for the debate. It have been him and Cruz. If Kasich is really about winning this thing, do the debate. He’s never gonna get any more focused national attention than he would get debating Cruz.

But he bumped out as soon as Trump did. Why? Well, it’s patently obvious. It’s one of two things. Kasich does not want to be caught saying anything negative about Trump because he wants to be part of what Trump is gonna end up doing if Trump’s the nominee. Or it’s even worse. He actually might think he’s got a chance to win a contested convention. And my guess would be it’s a toss-up between those two. But don’t discount the fact that the confetti guy thinks that he can go in there at a contested convention and win this thing.

And, folks, before you just throw that away as insanity, take a look at what establishment Republicans and leading consultants and others are saying, and you will be mind boggled. They’re talking about this guy, the governor of Ohio, could deliver Ohio in a presidential race. They’re treating this guy, who’s won one state, with more importance, more reverence, more respect, than Ted Cruz has gotten throughout this entire campaign going back to last August, through the fall and through the winter.

Whenever anything is going on in the Republican presidential campaign, it’s almost like Cruz is not there. Totally understandable, too. Of all of these candidates running, the one guy they really don’t want is Ted Cruz. I’m talking about establishment Republicans and others. They don’t want to any part of Ted Cruz, because they fear him. They fear that would mean a total reworking of the Republican Party. So they run around comparing him to Goldwater. They run around saying, “There are some Jesus freak,” or, you know, whatever the criticisms there are.

They believe they can work with Trump ’cause they think Trump’s malleable. They’ve even had establishment types who have said so. But when it comes Cruz? So Cruz’s task has been to get noticed. Cruz’s task has been to shout louder, whatever he has to do to overcome that. Because he knows as well that you can’t go out and cry unfair. Look, Kasich did that. It was during the early debates when nobody would call on him. “Hey, I’m the guy…” And Carson, too. People laughed at it and thought it was childish. The same thing would happened to Cruz if he went have complained about it, and he knows it. He’s gotta come at this differently.

It’s basically what our first caller here was saying.

Anyway, I gotta take a break here, folks. Once again a little bit long. Next segment just marginally shorter, and I’m just telling you that so you understand.