{"id":33119,"date":"2009-08-04T01:01:01","date_gmt":"2011-05-19T02:05:23","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2011-05-19T02:05:23","modified_gmt":"2011-05-19T02:05:23","slug":"rush_interviews_dr_arthur_laffer","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2009\/08\/04\/rush_interviews_dr_arthur_laffer\/","title":{"rendered":"Rush Interviews Dr. Arthur Laffer"},"content":{"rendered":"
\n

RUSH: We welcome to our program Dr. Arthur Laffer, ladies and gentlemen, who has prepared a research paper on the Obama health care plan. I\u2019ve admired your work, Dr. Laffer, ever since I first heard of you back in the late seventies, early eighties. It\u2019s great to have you here.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, thank you very much, Rush. It\u2019s a pleasure.<\/p>\n

RUSH: By the way, I want to share something with you. You may not know this, but you are partially responsible for Obama becoming a community organizer, from chapter 7, page 54 of his book, Dreams from My Father: ‘There wasn\u2019t much detail to the idea of community organizer. I didn\u2019t know anybody making a living that way. When classmates in college asked me just what it was that a community organizer did, I couldn\u2019t answer them directly instead I\u2019d pronounce on the need for change, change in the White House where Reagan and his minions were carrying on their dirty deeds.\u2019<\/p>\n

LAFFER: (chuckling)<\/p>\n

RUSH: You were a minion doing dirty deeds.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: A minion? Minion, minion! Oh, my gosh!<\/p>\n

RUSH: (laughs)<\/p>\n

LAFFER: I don\u2019t know if you remember, Rush, but I was on your show in studio in Sacramento, California, many, many years ago.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Oh, that\u2019s right. You know, you\u2019re exactly right.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: You impressed me enormously then as well as today.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, I thank you very much for that. It\u2019s mutual, then. I have a summary here of your findings. Let me just run through a couple bullet points and then you can take it and expand on this. ‘The current proposals being discussed in Washington, House and Senate, would raise the total federal government expenditures by 5.6% more than otherwise, adding $285.6 billion to the deficit in 2019, would increase national health care spenders by an additional 8.9%. After all this, it would still leave 30 million Americans uninsured.\u2019 Fill in the blanks here for us.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, you know, it\u2019s a fairly straightforward thing. Without going through the specific numbers — although I\u2019d be more than happy to do that — you know, whenever you separate people from the purchases they make… If you walked into a store and weren\u2019t told what anything cost and you could pick out whatever you wanted free, you\u2019re going to be squanders, you\u2019re going to buy things that are way too expensive that you don\u2019t want. I mean, one of the ways controlling costs is making people responsible for their own money, for their own expenditures and that is exactly what this program does not do. It makes the separation between the patient and the doctor and health services further and further removed, and takes away all control of costs. And, frankly, as P.J. O\u2019Rourke put it, he said, ‘If you think health care is expensive now, just wait \u2019til you see how much it costs when it\u2019s free,\u2019 and that\u2019s exactly what we\u2019re doing here.<\/p>\n

RUSH: You\u2019re an economist, accomplished economist, and obviously you did a lot of research here. One of my bugaboos is, in a political sense, is that when somebody, like an Obama or any Democrat, proposes something massive like this, the premise — which is, we have to have health care reform — is automatically accepted and we start analyzing the numbers and say, ‘That\u2019s too much here; it\u2019s too much there.\u2019 Do you get into the motivation for people who are behind this monster? Does that interest you at all, why they do it? <\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, it interests me, but it\u2019s not in this paper. That\u2019s not our purpose. As you say, I\u2019m an economist. I worry about the costs of the program, which are going to be a lot more than anyone else suggests. I\u2019m worried about the access and the availability of the services of the health care, and I\u2019m worried about the quality of it. I mean, that\u2019s what economists really worry about. In this program, it\u2019s a real problem.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, your first point about separating people from the cost of things is right on the money. It started 50 years ago with Medicaid and Medicare, and it\u2019s just expanded, and now —<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Huge.<\/p>\n

RUSH: — people consider it a right that their employer has to provide for them. But, Dr. Laffer, your research is going to add to what people have already learned on their own by reading what\u2019s in the House bill, and they\u2019re outraged by it. Do you think that your research paper has an opportunity to stop this?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, I hope it provides the information and the fodder, basically, to really make it a lot better, if not stopping it. I mean, I\u2019d love to see it stopped. You know, our health care system has things that can improve it a lot. But it\u2019s not broken. It provides great health care for many people, and frankly I think this type of reform and especially in the direction I think these people are going, for having a single-payer, I think it\u2019s really the wrong direction for America to go. I think it will really add costs and provide a lower quality product.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, you have in your paper a lot of solutions that make health care more available, make it better without destroying what\u2019s already good in the system. What are some of those?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, you know, some of the obvious ones that I think are really big: I mean, I think health care providers who aren\u2019t doctors, allowing them to do things they\u2019re competent to do and not prohibiting them from doing it — nurses and other health care technicians — shots and other things, and prescribing low-level medicines and that type of stuff. I think tort reform is another one, Rush, that really is a huge increase in costs. I mean, the insurance costs a doctor has just for practicing medicine and how that feeds through in expenses, it\u2019s amazing. All of these things. There are lots of things we can do to make our system better.<\/p>\n

RUSH: HSAs, health savings accounts, have been killed.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Yes, HSAs is another good example, there you go.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Expressly struck, however, from both houses, the House and the Senate. The HSAs are going to be gone —<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Yeah.<\/p>\n

RUSH: — precisely because they do give power and control to the patient.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Sure, and it gives you the power of your own money. It\u2019s money that you put in there. I mean, you know, individual ownership of insurance policies, that\u2019s an obvious one. The HSAs, as you say, are clear. You know, interstate purchasing of insurance, that\u2019s another one that can easily be done. There are lots of other ones that are in there that really will make the system a lot better. But making it the post office or the Department of Motor Vehicles, or making doctors employees of government really doesn\u2019t make it better. Honest.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Let me move to the general economy if I can for just a second.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Sure. Of course. I love it.<\/p>\n

RUSH: We saw the news yesterday: tax receipts, corporate and personal, near record lows since 1930s.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Surprise, surprise. (chuckles)<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, this is a personal question. You\u2019re the author of the Laffer Curve. The principle that to a certain point lowering marginal tax rates stimulates economic activity and generates more revenue to the Treasury has been proven twice: Kennedy and Reagan. It has been — well, and, Bush. Bush 43. It has been proven three times. Does it frustrate you personally that something you know works, that has been demonstrated to work, to the world —<\/line><\/line>LAFFER: Yeah.<\/line><\/p>\n

RUSH: — is constantly attacked and tried to be overthrown?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Yeah, but it\u2019s silly. Because everyone knows that you can overcharge for something and collect less money and everyone knows you can undercharge for it and collect less money. You know, there is a pricing mechanism there and taxes are no different. Just let\u2019s take the health care one here, Rush. You know, the president wanted to put a 5.4% surcharge on millionaires, thinking he\u2019d collect more money. That\u2019s about the dumbest idea I\u2019ve ever heard. If you raise taxes on those people, you\u2019re going to get a lot less people; and they\u2019re going to figure ways around it, and you\u2019re going to collect a lot less money.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Dr. Laffer, this gets to a question, a point that really, really bugs me. You just said it\u2019s stupid. Anybody with any economic literacy has to conclude by now — and many knew before it was implemented — that the whole stimulus theory was bound to fail. It had no chance.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Totally! It\u2019s never worked! Whenever you get something for nothing, check (chuckles), because you\u2019re probably not getting it.<\/p>\n

RUSH: So I\u2019m back to motivation. I\u2019m back, and this may be an area you might not want to get into, but I\u2019m going to chance the question.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Sure, go ahead.<\/p>\n

RUSH: I don\u2019t believe they\u2019re stupid. I think it\u2019s being done purposely for a reason. Nobody is this stupid. Not with the history of the world and the history of this country, within 20 years as a guide. There\u2019s a blueprint how to get an economy going again. It\u2019s called: Get out of the way of the American people and incentivize them.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Yes.<\/p>\n

RUSH: This is the exact opposite. We\u2019re losing five to 600,000 jobs every month. Consumer spending was up 0.4% but incomes are down 1.3%. Nothing is working. There is no rescue. There is no recovery. And they\u2019re talking about doubling down on this. And I, for one — as someone who understands how wrong this is and dangerous — don\u2019t understand why it is being continued.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, I\u2019m not really sure, but if you\u2019ve ever been to the university with fellow professors, I mean they may be able to manipulate a Feynman diagram or invert a matrix over a Banach space, but they don\u2019t know how to pay their lunch bill and they can\u2019t tie their shoes. And what you see here are these types of mistakes are classic professorial mistakes, lawyer mistakes. They think that if you change a law, Rush, all of a sudden things are working in that direction. It\u2019s not true. And they have no idea of the real world. They\u2019ve never made a bad trade. They\u2019ve never suffered the humility of their own ideas being wrong. Because in their classroom their ideas are always right, and that\u2019s the trouble with this administration, that they really don\u2019t have a clue.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, you\u2019re being generous.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: I am. I like the people very much. I know a number of them very well. They\u2019re good friends.<\/p>\n

RUSH: All right. Does Lawrence Summers have a clue?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: I don\u2019t think he has a clue. He may be the one that you\u2019re right on, by the way. (chuckles) The other one\u2019s Jared Bernstein. I know him very well. He\u2019s a great guy, an honest man. I think he\u2019s wrong, but he\u2019s a great guy. Christina Romer, she\u2019s terrific. Her research before has been great.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah. See? Christina Romer is an acolyte of you!<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Yeah, but she\u2019s great on that stuff. And she\u2019s just sitting there now in the position where she has to mouth the party line, which is very sad. I watched Austan Goolsbee defend Obama\u2019s firing of the chairman of the board of GM. Hello! That\u2019s not what a president of the United States is supposed to do, Rush, but that\u2019s what they were doing, and the economist was justifying it. ‘Well, we\u2019re a big shareholder now, and…\u2019 ‘We?\u2019 (chuckles) Oh, my goodness. It\u2019s crazy, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

RUSH: It is. Well, it\u2019s crazy and dangerous, because, you know, when you start attaching motive to this… I\u2019ll grant you that they\u2019re professorial and academically stupid, ignorant. But something about this is so bad and so wrong, and when you look at something that is this bad, there are people going to benefit from it and when you look at who, then you say, ‘Okay, how?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: But who benefits from this? See, I don\u2019t see who benefits from these types of classic mistakes unless you take a power-hungry dictator.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well…<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Would Kim Jong-il do this? I mean, seriously.<\/p>\n

RUSH: He has done it! His people are eating dogs. They\u2019re starving to death. <\/p>\n

LAFFER: (laughs)<\/p>\n

RUSH: They\u2019re doing it in Venezuela. It\u2019s the history of the world.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Chavez is a pretty bad guy. There are not many worse than Chavez.<\/p>\n

RUSH: The history of the world is this.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: I guess it is.<\/p>\n

RUSH: This is why the United States is such an exception. And if you have a guy who for whatever reason is a chip on his shoulder about how immoral and unjust this country was… I\u2019ll tell you what I think. To put it in economic terms, I think that the objective of Barack Obama is — via redistribution — to return the nation\u2019s wealth to its, quote, unquote, ‘rightful owners.\u2019<\/p>\n

LAFFER: But, you know, he\u2019s destroying it for the poor, for minorities, for the disenfranchised.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah, but he\u2019s —<\/p>\n

LAFFER: No one\u2019s doing better with 9.5% unemployment, and the participation rates, the average hours the average wages, the quality of jobs is declining like a submarine sinks.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, let me posit a theory. If your number-one signature issue is health care and you want it because with it you\u2019ll be able to regulate every aspect of every American\u2019s life — <\/p>\n

LAFFER: That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n

RUSH: — what better event could you have than massive unemployment and people losing their health insurance, clamoring for more, clamoring for their health care because they\u2019re scared to death they\u2019re going to get sick. I think there\u2019s a lot of fraud and deceit that accompanies the professorial stupidity.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Well, there is a lot of that. It\u2019s hubris, I mean, is what it really is —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: — and their inability to admit they\u2019re wrong because frankly they don\u2019t have to bear the consequences of their own hubris and their own mistakes. That\u2019s the problem.<\/p>\n

RUSH: That\u2019s a good point. Dr. Laffer, it is great to talk to you again.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Oh, Rush, it\u2019s wonderful talking to you. You\u2019re a doing a great job. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n

RUSH: You\u2019re going to present this paper at two o\u2019clock this afternoon right?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: I sure am.<\/p>\n

RUSH: All right. Well, we\u2019ll have an eye on it. Where are you doing that, in New York?<\/p>\n

LAFFER: I\u2019m in New York, yes.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, good luck, and thanks very much for your time.<\/p>\n

LAFFER: Thank you very much, Rush.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Dr. Art Laffer.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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