{"id":25618,"date":"2007-05-16T01:01:01","date_gmt":"2011-05-19T05:30:26","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2011-05-19T05:30:26","modified_gmt":"2011-05-19T05:30:26","slug":"interview_wh_spokesman_tony_snow2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2007\/05\/16\/interview_wh_spokesman_tony_snow2\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview: WH Spokesman Tony Snow"},"content":{"rendered":"
\n

RUSH: With much glee and excitement, Tony Snow from the White House. <\/p>\n

SNOW: (Chuckling.)<\/p>\n

RUSH: Tony, it\u2019s great to have you back, and how are you feeling, first? I bet you\u2019re tired of getting the question, but I haven\u2019t asked and I want to know.<\/p>\n

SNOW: I am never tired of getting the question because I\u2019ve got an answer I like to share with people, which is I\u2019m doing great. You know, I had surgery a couple months ago. I\u2019m now doing chemo, finished round number one a couple of days ago. I\u2019ll go in for round number two next week. But, obviously, it\u2019s not slowing me down. I\u2019m back working, having a blast.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Really, that much chemo? It\u2019s not slowing you down at all?<\/p>\n

SNOW: No, I… Maybe a little tiny but, but I can\u2019t tell. It\u2019s really not that big a deal.<\/p>\n

RUSH: That\u2019s great news. <\/p>\n

SNOW: Yeah, it is great news.<\/p>\n

RUSH: What did the doctors say about that? Attitudinally, when you\u2019re told of the diagnosis that you were told of, and then you began treatment and therapy for it, did the doctors tell you anything about your attitude going into it? ‘Hey, look, you can overcome some of the fatigue if you just don\u2019t think it\u2019s going to be that bad. It is what it is.\u2019 Is that something they tell you, because this is a unique story. Most people don\u2019t tell this story when they\u2019re on chemo.<\/p>\n

SNOW: I think there are a couple things. First, attitude is a huge deal. First time I did chemo I actually did 12 sessions, and the chemicals were tougher. This time around, two of the three really don\u2019t have any side effects, and the other one, which can make you a little bit tired, I take in pill form and spread over a week, so it just doesn\u2019t kind of pack the kind of wallop it used to. But, like, attitude is a big deal. You know, if you go in and you think, ‘Okay, I\u2019m going to whip this thing,\u2019 and you have a combination of attitude and your faith and love and prayers, you know, you watch your diet, you get exercise, all those things contribute, and what I\u2019m trying to do is to put everything in the plus column that I can.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah, that\u2019s great. Everybody was shocked when they got the news the second time around, and this is just really great, because you have so many people that love and appreciate what you\u2019ve done and what you are doing. And let\u2019s get to that, because I know one of the things happening in the Senate right now that\u2019s of extreme interest to people in the White House and out is this immigration bill, and I\u2019ve heard a couple of things about it and I want you to tell me if what I\u2019m hearing is right or wrong. One thing is that the Senate\u2019s trying to push this thing through without senators having a chance to read the whole thing. It\u2019s 600 pages. They\u2019re trying to move a procedural vote forward to get a vote going without debate on this much, because there\u2019s so much in it that is confusing and, I mean, 600 pages is a lot of things, and a lot of people are upset that anybody would sign a bill that they haven\u2019t read, even though that\u2019s more common than people know.<\/p>\n

SNOW: (Laughs.) Well, a couple things first. We\u2019re still in negotiations on this. But the fact is, folks are going to have time to read this, and they\u2019re going to have time to look at the fine print. The other thing is, you gotta keep in mind one of the guys who\u2019s leading the charge on the Senate side is Jon Kyl, who himself has been skeptical of immigration reform in some senses. So I think for conservatives, they ought to feel a certain level of comfort that a guy who has been with them — and let\u2019s face it, Jon Kyl is not the kind of guy who ever backs away from principle. So this is the kind of thing that ought to be inspiring confidence. For people who are worried about border security or figuring out how to be tough on people who break laws, we\u2019re coming up with a system that allows us to identify illegals who are already in our midst and come up with a sensible way of dealing with them. All of those things and a lot more are addressed in the legislation. But, as I said, it\u2019s a little premature for anybody to start talking about bills because none have really been drafted up yet, but on the other hand there are real negotiations taking place, and the guy who is kind of leading up the effort on the Republican side in the Senate is Jon Kyl.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, look, politics is perception. You care about what public opinion is on this, and I don\u2019t have anything other than anecdotal evidence, but there\u2019s a significant amount of it, and it goes like this. Well, not evidence, but a significant amount of anecdotal discussion about it. A lot of people say, ‘Jon Kyl is a great guy,\u2019 but they\u2019re not being convinced by this because the Republicans have a history of caving to Democrats, even when the Republicans run the show. Well, they\u2019re not running the Senate now. The Democrats are, by a slim majority. So people think that this is still just an end run to get an amnesty program passed.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Look, I\u2019ll push back in two ways. Number one, Democrats — like there\u2019s plenty of Democratic opposition to this, including by unions. Number two, one of the frustrations we have is that no matter what we do, we\u2019ve got our own guys shooting arrows at us, not giving the president credit for having spent more money on border security than anybody before, having acknowledged that the 1986 bill, Simpson-Mazzoli signed by President Reagan, did have amnesty. What\u2019s amnesty? Amnesty is a way of saying, ‘We don\u2019t care if you broke the law. We scrub your record clean. All is forgotten,\u2019 as opposed to what we\u2019re talking about, which is you gotta admit you broke the law; you\u2019ve gotta pay a fine. It is not a wrist slap. It\u2019s a felony level punishment. You do not get an automatic path to citizenship. Instead, what you have to do is, after you\u2019ve acknowledged you\u2019ve broken the law, after you\u2019ve paid a debt to society, then you go to the back of the line. If you break the law, you\u2019re out of the line.<\/p>\n

RUSH: That\u2019s the Z visa, right?<\/p>\n

SNOW: Huh?<\/p>\n

RUSH: The Z visa, as it\u2019s being called in the news stories about this?<\/p>\n

SNOW: Right. A Z visa is one of these things where essentially what we\u2019re saying is, number one, you gotta admit that you broke the law and you\u2019re gonna pay a punishment. Number two, you\u2019ve gotta prove that you want to be the kind of American you and I would want to see, Rush. You\u2019ve got to stay continuously employed; you can\u2019t come here just to get welfare benefits. You\u2019ve gotta obey the law. You have to pay your taxes. At the same time also, you\u2019ve gotta learn the English language; you\u2019ve gotta understand American citizenship. In other words, you have to pass all the benchmarks that you and I would want somebody to pass: working hard, playing by the rules, obeying the law. If you break the law, you\u2019re out. If you cross the border illegally, you\u2019re not allowed back in again. In other words, there are more provisions here to get tough on lawbreakers and also to set up a series of tests that say, ‘At the end of this process, if somebody becomes eligible for citizenship, have they really demonstrated that they\u2019re going to be a model citizen in a way that you or I or the listeners to this program would consider an effective representation, effective way of demonstrating goodwill and the right kind of character and behavior?\u2019 If you don\u2019t, you don\u2019t become a citizen.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, now, this sounds great, but there\u2019s this word that keeps bugging me in this and that\u2019s enforcement. First, what if they can\u2019t afford the fine? Second, what if they don\u2019t bother to show up because the word\u2019s going to spread in their community it\u2019s just a deportation gimmick, and so they\u2019re not going to show up and report. What enforcement measures, since we have lax enforcement now —<\/p>\n

SNOW: Yeah.<\/p>\n

RUSH: What\u2019s new in this that\u2019s going to help…?<\/p>\n

SNOW: Sure.<\/p>\n

RUSH: We\u2019ve been told we can\u2019t deport 12 million, and I\u2019m not talking about that, because we can\u2019t find them. Now we\u2019re going to pass legislation that requires them to tell us who they are, then come in and pay a fine, then admit they broke the law, then go to the back of the line, and if that doesn\u2019t happen —<\/p>\n

SNOW: Actually, no. We\u2019re a lot more clever than that. Because if it were simply self-reporting, ‘Come on out! Tell us you broke the law,\u2019 of course that wouldn\u2019t work. But instead, what we have here is a requirement for a tamper proof ID. There are two things. First, you\u2019ve gotta get the borders straight. One of the things that you\u2019ve gotta understand is a lot of things hinge upon whether you\u2019ve got the border secure and you can start monitoring it. What do we see? We see that, in fact, our border efforts are starting to bear fruit, and that you\u2019re actually getting less illegal flow, and that\u2019s getting choked off. That\u2019s a good thing. But for those who are here. They don\u2019t have to report. You know who has to report? The people who are hiring them. We\u2019re talking about a tamper proof ID with biometric information on it so that they can\u2019t fake it.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah, I\u2019ve heard about that.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Now, here\u2019s the deal. If you\u2019re an employer, you got somebody illegal and they don\u2019t have their papers, you get socked with a fine and you may have to forfeit assets. As a matter of fact, we\u2019ve done something no administration has done before, which is to have real criminal punishments against guys that are knowingly hiring or harboring illegals. They gotta have that. If the employer doesn\u2019t have that verified ID, they\u2019re the ones who get caught holding the bag. They\u2019re the ones who become liable for this. So there are a series of powerful incentives for them to make sure that the people who are working for them are there legally. Furthermore, if you\u2019re somebody who\u2019s trying to collect benefits, sorry about this, but you gotta have it. So I think what you find is that if anybody wants access to the benefits of citizenship or residency in the United States, they\u2019re going to need to come clean, otherwise they\u2019re not going to get anything.<\/p>\n

RUSH: All right, so we\u2019re going to handle this with a new law, essentially. Now, here\u2019s —<\/p>\n

SNOW: Yeah.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Here are the things that, when the existing law that people admit isn\u2019t working because that\u2019s why we need the new law.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Right.<\/p>\n

RUSH: So we\u2019re gonna have a new law to fix all this. Here\u2019s the thing that based on my knowledge and experience, and guided by my intelligence with Democrats, let\u2019s just say theoretically that this passes — or hypothetically that this passes.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Yeah?<\/p>\n

RUSH: I can hear Harry Reid and Ted Kennedy the next day saying, ‘How can we be so unkind to charge these people who are working for two bucks an hour, $5,000 they don\u2019t have? That is cruel,\u2019 and try to blame this on the Republicans politically, going into the election, because if fits the mold of mean-spirited, cold-hearted and cruel. The Democrats obviously want these people to become voters. They\u2019re looking at this in a political sense.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Yup.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, go ahead and respond to that.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Well, there are two things. Number one, keep in mind what I was telling you before in terms of the kind of profile you want: people are working hard, paying taxes. Guess what? What we\u2019re really talking about is people who in the end ought to be Republican voters who came here because they wanted to work, not because they wanted to sponge, who came here because they believed in the American dream. They came here, and now understand — have demonstrated — that they want to be citizens by putting their money where their mouth is, by staying employed, by staying legal and lawful, by mastering the culture. These are people who ought to be Republican voters because they do in fact share the conservative values, and they look at this as a land of opportunity. When it comes to this other, though, the fact is Democrats are going to have be part of this, and we\u2019re working with it, and see, my sense is I think it\u2019s going to be less likely the Democrats are going to turn around and trash their own handiwork because it has been tough for them. Again, the unions are all over them, saying, ‘Why don\u2019t you just kill this? Don\u2019t do anything at all.\u2019<\/p>\n

RUSH: I thought —<\/p>\n

SNOW: So there has been a certain amount of political courage on the part of Democrats who are standing up to those interests as well. Finally when it comes to the issue of saying, ‘Well, you\u2019re being cruel to these people.\u2019 Number one, you\u2019re not talking about two dollars an hour. You\u2019re talking about people who are going to be making enough and saving enough over time. Number two, you understand how it works. You can always garnish enough wages to get that punishment and that penalty paid. So the fact is, you\u2019re going to ask yourself: ‘What\u2019s crueler, having somebody that\u2019s working and paying taxes and having those fines — what are they going to rather have, that situation, or one where they get sent back?\u2019 You know, if they really want to become American citizens they\u2019re going to have an opportunity to prove it the hard way, and all the incentives for them is going to be to stay.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Time is dwindling here, and really, I wanted to ask you this earlier, but what about the families of these people? They\u2019re going to want their families here. It seems like this is going to have a possibility of really swelling the number of people into this country illegally.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Well, there\u2019s a lot of talk about chain migration. That has been the concern, and that is something, again, that is a matter of ongoing conversation and negotiation in this. Let\u2019s just wait to see what they come up with on this. But the fact is that we are certainly aware of the concern and the consideration, and I go back to what I was saying before, which is: you can\u2019t have people here who are not working and that are not paying taxes. One other note here, by the way, and it\u2019s also worth considering. You put together this program. You got your IDs and all this sort of stuff. The people then decided that they\u2019re going to try to sort of migrant back and forth across the border, suddenly they lose the right to stay on American soil and they\u2019ve got to go back and apply for things like the temporary worker program and so on. It\u2019s our calculation that as many as two-thirds of the people who are here illegally actually don\u2019t want to become citizens, and at some point they\u2019re going to filter back to where they came from and stay there. So we may not be talking about ten to 12 million over the long haul. You may be talking about three or four million or five million who eventually want to become US citizens — and again, our aspiration is, make them good US citizens, responsible US citizens, and ones who share our values by demonstrating it each and every day by the way they live.<\/p>\n

RUSH: All right. I\u2019ve gotta go. I have to make a closing comment. I want to respond to the whole political aspect of this, because I raised it about the Democrats wanting this legislation for future voters. Tony, I\u2019ve always thought it was a miscalculation, a mistake for Republicans of any stripe, to think that these people are going to become Republicans because we do nice things like this legislation. Simpson-Mazzoli did grant amnesty, as you say, in 1986. <\/p>\n

SNOW: Yup.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Those people didn\u2019t become Republican voters.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Well, what I\u2019m saying is somebody who comes here to work and work hard and share in the American dream, they can become Republican voters. We oughta be out there, frankly, doing what you do every day, Rush, which is tell the people exactly how great this country is and the values that make it great, because a lot of folks do come here chasing the same kind of dream that our ancestors did, which is they want to set down roots in the country that does have a rule of law, where in fact if you work hard you can achieve your dreams — and, frankly, there is an opportunity to reach out and make those folks Republican voters, and we shouldn\u2019t shrink from not only the challenge but the opportunity.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Tony, I gotta let you run. I know you\u2019re over your time limit here. We appreciate that, and I\u2019m a little bit over my break time. <\/p>\n

SNOW: (Chuckles.)<\/p>\n

RUSH: But, look, all the best to you. We\u2019re all thrilled that you\u2019re doing well, and we hope that continues to be the case.<\/p>\n

SNOW: Rush, my friend, it\u2019s great being on. Thank you.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Tony Snow from the White House, and we\u2019ll be back right after this.<\/p>\n

BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n

RUSH: The time we had with Tony Snow ran two minutes longer than what we scheduled. We ran 14 minutes and we were going to go 12. This segment is going to be shorter than usual because of that. It really wasn\u2019t enough time to debate. What he talked about how the unions are for this legislation. They\u2019re not. It\u2019s tough. We had the story here, I don\u2019t know, it seems like a month or six weeks ago. John Sweeney has totally changed his mind on this. He was opposed to this legislation, but for some reason, Sweeney\u2019s changed his mind. The public sector unions are for this. They have come around on this, for political reasons. They\u2019re for the legislation winding its way through the Senate. There\u2019s something about this immigration argument, that the proponents for all this legislation articulate that has always gnawed at me, and I haven\u2019t been able to wrap my arms around it. But after listening to Tony, it crystallized for me. These people — these illegals, aliens, whatever — they\u2019re coming here on their own. <\/p>\n

We\u2019re not forcing them to come here! We are not burdening them at all, and yet we respond to their illegal entry by acting like we\u2019ve done something wrong to them and we need to do something to make it right for them, and it\u2019s what\u2019s always bugged me. Instead of doing what we can to ‘make it right\u2019 for American citizens and protect the jobs and the work, we seem to be going out of our way. Both parties seem to be bending over backwards and forwards, totally the opposite of the way the Dubai Ports deal was. You didn\u2019t want the Dubai Ports deal, then by gosh we weren\u2019t going to get the Dubai Ports deal! Your thoughts on immigration don\u2019t seem to matter a hill of beans to these people, up in the Senate. So here we have to provide them with opportunities for citizenship, just because they\u2019re here? It\u2019s a very odd way of thinking. We\u2019ve lost control of the border. We can talk about now how we\u2019re going to make it more secure, get tougher and all that. Fine and dandy, but we were going to do that after Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986 and it didn\u2019t happen. Now we\u2019ve got a new law to replace the old law, and the new law is supposedly going to have magical components to it, or magical powers. This new law is going to have its own enforcement mechanism. The power of the law will make these people admit that they\u2019re illegal, pay the fine, move to the back of the line, spend eight, 13 years, whatever it is, to get here. The idea that we, as a country, have to go out of our way to accommodate these people, has been the one thing I\u2019ve never understood, other than both parties are looking for votes. But the process by which they\u2019re going through this — ignoring existing voters, and contributors? — is still mind-boggling to me.<\/p>\n

BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, look, a lot of you people have been sending me e-mail, I\u2019ve been checking, you\u2019re really raking Tony Snow over the coals, and some of you are even having the audacity to rake me over the coals for what you think was a softball interview. I told you: I didn\u2019t have enough time to debate Tony. I\u2019m not… Folks, honestly, debating Tony on this is not the way to kill this. The way to kill this is to mobilize power, power which I first time admitted having today, in 19 years. When this thing comes out of the Senate, because it is going to come out of the Senate. They\u2019re going to get this done, this illegal immigration business, and as I said, it\u2019s mind-boggling in many ways. But, look, we\u2019re all sick and tired of being lectured to on this. I know a lot of you are personally sick and tired of it. You don\u2019t need to be lectured about it because you\u2019re living the problems created by illegal immigration every day, and we\u2019re all being told to believe something that\u2019s not credible: that an incompetent government is going to all of a sudden become competent, that a massive number of new bureaucracies are going to perform efficiently, as existing bureaucracies are not. Don\u2019t give me this, ‘It could happen.\u2019<\/p>\n

Yeah, everything is a wing and a prayer here. But it still boggles my mind that we\u2019re not inviting these people here! They\u2019re coming on their own, and we\u2019re acting like we owe them something! I\u2019m talking about the illegals, and we\u2019re going out of our way to not hurt their feelings and make sure they become citizens and so forth. The whole focus on this has always been gnawing at me as something that\u2019s just unreal. (sigh) We respond by acting like we\u2019ve done something wrong to them and that we\u2019ve gotta apologize. We gotta not make amends. ‘Oh, sorry! You came here illegally, and because we have a law that says you\u2019re illegal, you\u2019ve been stigmatized. We\u2019re sorry. We\u2019re sorry that our stupid laws make you illegal, so we\u2019re gonna have new laws, and you\u2019ll find a way to legal now.\u2019 All this is predicated on the assumption we can\u2019t deport them, because we couldn\u2019t round \u2019em up. Well, now they\u2019re going to be asked to turn themselves in? (Laughing.) What? (interruption) Nah, but tougher sanctions?<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t recall the tougher sanctions are ever going to be enforced. I just don\u2019t see it. When I told Tony I firmly believe it won\u2019t be long — if this thing ever does become law, this business about they\u2019ve gotta pay the fine? What is it, $5,000 or some such thing, a sliding scale? Do you know how long it\u2019s going to be — we can make book on this — before Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid and any number of other Democrats start crying and moaning about, ‘Wow, that\u2019s such a high price! These are just people doing jobs American people won\u2019t do. How could we think of being so cruel to charge them so much.\u2019 These will be the authors of the legislation that will institute these, quote, unquote, ‘fines\u2019 and so we\u2019re going to pass the fine collection off on their future employers. Look, everybody understands here that if this passes, 20 years from now, we\u2019re going to be wringing our hands again, ‘Gee, what a bad law. We\u2019ve gotta do something else,\u2019 just like Simpson-Mazzoli \u201986, we gave amnesty to, what, three and a half million of them, now we\u2019re 12 to 15. Uh, gotta do something! Simpson-Mazzoli, going to fix it all, and this won\u2019t. The public understands that. We didn\u2019t take enforcement seriously. <\/p>\n

Look, I hate to be brutality frank sometimes because it hurts people\u2019s feelings here, but we\u2019re being asked to believe that the same government that allowed three of the Fort Dix Six to remain here, despite their expired visas, will now somehow make sure that doesn\u2019t happen. Three of the Fort Dix Six, and these were people plotting a terrorist attack against our soldiers at Fort Dix. Look, when bureaucracies start making promises… We\u2019re all sensitized to this, and we\u2019ve all been through it, and there\u2019s a natural and intelligent skepticism that arises when all of this happens. Now, I just wanted to say all this to you now because debating Tony on this was not going to accomplish anything, other than to make you think I\u2019m a tough guy. ‘Now, I\u2019m not going to take any of that gruff! I don\u2019t care! I\u2019m not going to bow down to the White House.\u2019 That\u2019s what you would have ended up thinking. Now you\u2019re probably thinking, ‘Eh, Limbaugh is a White House lackey again.\u2019 This is not the place to do this. The place to aim at this is the people who are doing the legislation, and that\u2019s in the Senate. Now, I will not forget Jeff Sessions, a good friend, senator from Alabama. We had a bite last week. Jeff Sessions was out there saying, ‘They\u2019re trying to ramrod this legislation through so fast that Rush Limbaugh won\u2019t be able to read it and tell the American people what\u2019s wrong with it,\u2019 and they were trying to do on a procedural motion to limit debate on this. It\u2019s 600 pages long, and I think that whole policy or plan has since been confirmed.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

RUSH: With much glee and excitement, Tony Snow from the White House. SNOW: (Chuckling.) RUSH: Tony, it\u2019s great to have you back, and how are you feeling, first? I bet you\u2019re tired of getting the question, but I haven\u2019t asked and I want to know. SNOW: I am never tired of getting the question because […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":25,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","ngg_post_thumbnail":0},"categories":[],"tags":[],"yoast_head":"\nInterview: WH Spokesman Tony Snow - The Rush Limbaugh Show<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2007\/05\/16\/interview_wh_spokesman_tony_snow2\/\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:title\" content=\"Interview: WH Spokesman Tony Snow - The Rush Limbaugh Show\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:description\" content=\"RUSH: With much glee and excitement, Tony Snow from the White House. SNOW: (Chuckling.) 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