{"id":254927,"date":"2017-11-15T15:20:00","date_gmt":"2017-11-15T20:20:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/?p=254927"},"modified":"2017-11-16T16:35:11","modified_gmt":"2017-11-16T21:35:11","slug":"senate-gop-puts-obamacare-mandate-repeal-in-the-tax-cut-bill-but-theres-a-catch","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2017\/11\/15\/senate-gop-puts-obamacare-mandate-repeal-in-the-tax-cut-bill-but-theres-a-catch\/","title":{"rendered":"Senate GOP Puts Obamacare Mandate Repeal in the Tax Cut Bill — But There\u2019s a Catch"},"content":{"rendered":"

RUSH: CNBC has a story today: “Senate\u2019s GOP Tax Reform Bill Seeks Repeal of Obamacare Individual Mandate<\/a>.” So you have the House tax bill. This isn\u2019t in it. And I asked Paul Ryan why not when he was here last week for an interview. And then the Senate releases their bill and hot damn if it isn\u2019t there.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ll tell you something. It\u2019s important. If we get rid of the Obamacare individual mandate, then we have gutted Obamacare. That is a significant portion of repealing Obamacare. So let\u2019s go to the audio sound bites, and we\u2019re first gonna focus on sound bite number 3 and number 4. This is a replay of the interview back on November 7th that I did with the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan.<\/a><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>RUSH ARCHIVE: There\u2019s something else here that I don\u2019t understand, either. I saw this headline at TheHill.com. It\u2019s at a number of places. \u201cGOP Unlikely to Repeal Obamacare Mandate in the Tax Bill.\u201d Now, Senator Cotton is leading an effort to include a repeal of the mandate in the tax bill. There\u2019s no language for this in the House bill. The Hill says that the chairman of Ways and Means, Mr. Brady, expressed worry because trying to repeal the mandate could jeopardize the broader bill. You know, the reason, you could do it, it\u2019s a tax, because the Supreme Court said it was a tax in order to legalize Obamacare so why can\u2019t you just get rid of that in one fell swoop?<\/p>\n

SPEAKER RYAN: Well, obviously I\u2019m in favor of getting rid of it. We\u2019re in favor of \u2014 we passed our repeal and replace of Obamacare in the House back in May. So the House is clearly on record for getting rid of this mandate and repealing the whole thing and replacing it with patient-centered health care. It\u2019s what you just said, the question is whether or not we have the support to do it in tax reform or not. And that\u2019s something that a lot of members are talking about with themselves and so it\u2019s something that people are suggesting. Right now the Ways and Means Committee, which is doing the tax law is focused on the tax policy, is not focused on anything else at this time.<\/p>\n

RUSH ARCHIVE: It would be so great to get rid \u2014 you get rid-of-that and you\u2019ve taken the guts and the heart and the soul out of Obamacare.<\/p>\n

SPEAKER RYAN: You have no argument with me.<\/p>\n

RUSH: That\u2019s Speaker Ryan back on November 7th. And it was clear that, well, we\u2019re not doing Obamacare bill here. We\u2019re doing a tax bill. If they want to mess with it over there, that\u2019s fine, I just soon it be gone too, but we\u2019re not we\u2019re not gonna combine these two things here because we want to stay focused on the tax bill.<\/p>\n

So the Senate presents their bill and the individual mandate\u2019s gone. But before you start clapping, wait a minute. There\u2019s something I need to inform you that you may not have learned if you didn\u2019t read far enough in the story about this. But first here is Speaker Ryan this morning CNBC Squawk Box. He\u2019s talking to Becky Quick. She said, “Your membership,” meaning the House Republicans, “voting tomorrow on the tax reform bill, and it just got a lot more complicated by what the Senate chose to do overnight by wrapping a partial repeal, the Obamacare individual mandate. Now, we\u2019ve always said tax reform\u2019s really tough, maybe nothing tougher than health care reform. So by putting these two together, what does that do in terms of what you have to do to convince your membership to stay loyal to your tax bill?”<\/p>\n

RYAN: We\u2019ve had the House votes to do that. We passed our repeal of the individual mandate back in May, but we never had the votes in the Senate. So what we didn\u2019t want to is make tax reform harder than it already is. But it really is whether or not the Senate has the votes for this or not. So we\u2019re seeing what the Senate can do. If the Senate can get it through committee, if they can get it to the floor, then we\u2019ll meet \u2019em in conference and we\u2019ll assess at that time. We\u2019ve passed this two or three times, most recently in May. Look, do we like the individual mandate? Of course we don\u2019t like the individual mandate.<\/p>\n

RUSH: We did it. We got rid it. We don\u2019t need it in our bill. But if they\u2019re gonna put it in there, then we\u2019ll consider it. So if they put it in there, we\u2019ll consider it. So this is one of these things where obviously Speaker Ryan didn\u2019t oppose it, didn\u2019t want to put it in the House bill, the Senate has put it in theirs, and that\u2019s cool. However, ladies and gentlemen, buried in the article here on the CNBC story, “Senate\u2019s GOP Tax Reform Bill Seeks Repeal of Obamacare Individual Mandate,” let me read to you a line, as I say, buried in the article.<\/p>\n

“Senator Thune also said the deal agreed upon is to pass that bill alongside another bill, known as Alexander-Murray, which would restore key federal subsidy reimbursements to Obamacare insurers cut off last month by President Donald Trump.”<\/p>\n

So a little history. The Obamacare payoffs to the insurance companies in the form of subsidies were unconstitutional because they were illegal, because that was federal spending which did not originate in the House of Representatives and thus was not in the legislation. It was Obama simply issuing his executive order or executive action. And what had happened was that the premium prices in Obamacare for middle class, lower middle-class people were priced in such a way that insurance companies couldn\u2019t hope to even break even, much less make a profit.<\/p>\n

\"\"So in exchange for the insurance companies offering premium prices where they would lose money, Obamacare said, don\u2019t worry, I\u2019ll subsidize you. We\u2019ll get money from the Treasury. We will subsidize you, insurance companies. So go ahead and offer voters the low premium so I get the credit for reducing costs, you go ahead and agree to price it where you lose money and I\u2019ll subsidize you on the back end. And that\u2019s what happened. And that has been the way Obamacare\u2019s been functioning from the get-go.<\/p>\n

Now, those low prices are not low, but they are lower than they otherwise would have been. If the prices were from the get-go priced for the insurance companies to break even, make a profit, they would have really been unaffordable for most everybody. But the insurance companies, “You\u2019re gonna give us money?” Obama said, that\u2019s right. So they lowered the prices, making it appear to be more affordable for middle and lower middle-class people, of course the poor, and Obama subsidized them.<\/p>\n

Now, Trump came along after nine months of patience, waiting for Congress to rid itself of Obamacare in general, to repeal it, and that had not happened, Trump said, okay, you know what? I\u2019m gonna get rid of these subsidies cause I\u2019ve gotta kill this. This is gonna implode. The way it\u2019s written it will implode and since Congress isn\u2019t gonna get rid of it, I\u2019m gonna hasten implosion.<\/p>\n

So he removed the subsidies. He took back the free money Obama was giving insurance companies. Move forward to the Senate tax bill. The Senate tax bill repeals the individual mandate. But another bill called Alexander-Murray features the reintroduction of subsidies to the insurance companies. Now, these would be legal if the House goes along with it, and if it\u2019s in legislation, it would then be legal.<\/p>\n

But the point is, the Republicans in the Senate want to find a way to continue or to reinstitute the kickbacks to the insurance companies. And so the play is, “Okay, we\u2019ll go along with your tax reform bill to an extent,” they say to the House. And then they say, “We\u2019ll even repeal the individual mandate. We\u2019ll take that burden away from you so all you have to do is agree to it, but we\u2019re gonna put those subsidies back in.” So that apparently is the fine print.<\/p>\n

Senator Thune “told the Washington Post there are 50 Republican senators willing to support the mandate repealing tax reform bill, which would be enough to pass it,” as long as Mike Pence is in there to break the tie, the vice president.<\/p>\n

“Thune also said the deal –” this is near the end — “Thune also said the deal agreed upon is to pass that bill alongside another bill, known as Alexander-Murray, which would restore key federal subsidy reimbursements to Obamacare insurers cut off last month by President Donald Trump. The Democratic leader in the Senate, Chuck Schumer of New York, was scornful of the Republican decision,” with the usual bromides of cutting taxes for the rich and so forth. But that\u2019s where we are on this, and admittedly it\u2019s further down the road than people thought it would get, so we shall see.<\/p>\n

BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n

RUSH: Here\u2019s Rich in Racine, Wisconsin. Great to have you, sir. How are you?<\/p>\n

CALLER: I\u2019m doing fabulous, boss. How you doing today?<\/p>\n

RUSH: Fine and dandy. Thank you for asking.<\/p>\n

CALLER: I live in the heartland of, you know, mid-America, Paul Ryan\u2019s my representative, which means I have no representation at all.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, now, now, now, now.<\/p>\n

CALLER: (Unintelligible) information that they\u2019re trying to, you know, put that in where they\u2019re gonna reimburse the insurance companies. That just doesn\u2019t seem right —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Wait, it\u2019s not Ryan, though. That\u2019s a Senate provision that they\u2019re gonna —<\/p>\n

CALLER: Oh, believe me, they\u2019re gonna try to use that as the negotiating chip.<\/p>\n

\"\"RUSH: Okay.<\/p>\n

CALLER: They\u2019re not as good as Donald at getting the best end of a deal. I\u2019m just not that confident that they\u2019re gonna walk away — they\u2019re gonna screw it up. In my humble opinion, I think they\u2019re gonna blow this, right down to everything that\u2019s going on with the Alabama election —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Wait, wait, wait. They\u2019re gonna blow what?<\/p>\n

CALLER: Tax reform. I don\u2019t think they\u2019re gonna do it, I think they\u2019re gonna choke, something\u2019s gonna go wrong. I think Mitch\u2019s — honestly, I don\u2019t think he wants to be on the Trump team.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Who, Ryan?<\/p>\n

CALLER: Ryan, I think he\u2019s gotten actually I think he might have got the word. It got to the point where I got on a first-name basis with the guy at his office because people from his direct are constantly calling. Everybody I talk to is unhappy with our representation, I mean, just the way things are going —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Okay, I misheard. You said it\u2019s Mitch that you don\u2019t think wants Trump to win. You realize what\u2019ll happen if they don\u2019t get this done, right?<\/p>\n

CALLER: Honestly, I don\u2019t believe they want to run it. They don\u2019t. I think they\u2019re all in this altogether. I think that the establishment takes care of the establishment. I think if it wasn\u2019t for you and Sean and Mark Levin and others, you know, we would be on our own out here.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, here\u2019s the thing. If they don\u2019t do this, if this doesn\u2019t get done, they are in really big trouble in 2018. And a lot of these guys, in order to stay in the establishment, they have to win elections. Not everybody in the establishment has to win elections, but members of the House and the Senate, they have to. And if they don\u2019t get this done after the year that they\u2019ve had, if this doesn\u2019t happen, or if it happens and it ends up not being at all what they are saying it is, there\u2019s gonna be hell to pay at the ballot box in 2008. And I think they know this.<\/p>\n

They have stalled and they\u2019ve delayed throughout the whole year on Obamacare. It\u2019s an entitlement and I don\u2019t think they ever wanted to take that away. The Republicans don\u2019t ever want to be the ones to go down in history that take money away from the poor. That\u2019s the way it\u2019d be treated. That\u2019s the way it\u2019d be reported. But tax reform, that\u2019s a Republican signature issue. That\u2019s a Republican signature ID issue. They\u2019ve got to do this.<\/p>\n

But let me tell you something I heard in numerous places. Last night there was a town hall meeting on the Fox News Channel and Paul Ryan, your representative, was one of the roundtable guests or one of the town hall guests. You know, when I was interviewing him here, I said, “What\u2019s one take-away? What should people know about?”<\/p>\n

“It\u2019s a tax cut, Rush. It\u2019s a tax cut for the American people.” Well, some people have taken the guts of the deal, and they have been measuring various aspects of the tax reform plan with real-life circumstances. And they have found some middle class people — I forget the exact example, but husband and wife make $127,000, three kids in school, da-da-da-da-da, they have found some examples. And Ryan was hit with this last night where these families are gonna have, at the end of it all, a tax increase. They\u2019re gonna be paying more than they\u2019re paying now.<\/p>\n

\"\"And Ryan\u2019s answer, “Well, you may able to find some of those, but I\u2019m telling you,\u2019 he insisted, “the average American, everybody\u2019s gonna get a tax cut. You may be able to find an odd example here or there where it may not be the case.” So he acknowledged that there might be some outlier cases where people will end up paying more even after getting a rate reduction, and it all has to do with the deductibility of property taxes and state and local taxes and some other things.<\/p>\n

But the point of this is that not everybody is going to get a tax cut, or not everybody is going to be paying less. That would be the more accurate way of saying this. And I don\u2019t think there\u2019s any excuse for that. And you know why this is the case? The reason why is because — dadelut dadelut dadelut — we have to find a way to pay for it. I would maintain to you that in terms of real dollars and cents, if Washington finds a way to, quote, unquote, “pay for this tax cut,” then there isn\u2019t a tax cut. If, when this is over, Washington collects the same amount of money from the same number of people, how can there have been a tax cut? I\u2019m getting perplexed looks.<\/p>\n

BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, back to my tax reform question. Remember, Paul Ryan was in a town hall on Fox last night and they hit him with some scenarios of people who make $127,000 a year, 140, families, certain number of kids, after the tax reform bill, if it becomes law, they will actually pay more in taxes even with the rate reductions and all that. A number of people have taken the tax reform bill as it is with the rate reductions and the differences in what you can and can\u2019t deduct, and they\u2019ve applied these specifics to certain actual family examples. And they have found these examples. I don\u2019t know how many. I don\u2019t know how widespread it is. <\/p>\n

But when the selling point is every American will see their taxes cut, well, that may be true, but they may end up paying more. There\u2019s a big difference in your tax rate being cut and the effective tax rate you pay, and there\u2019s a big difference in your tax rate being cut and your total tax owed. And where this gets hairy is in the areas of the new reform law where certain property or state and local income taxes will no longer be deductible. Those people are gonna see a rate reduction, and they\u2019re gonna see the standard exemption doubled. <\/p>\n

\"\"But with certain deductions taken away, they\u2019re actually going to be paying a few more dollars in total tax even after receiving reductions in their rates and so forth. And so Speaker Ryan was hit with these examples and asked, “How can you say you\u2019re cutting taxes for everybody when these examples exist?” And he said, “Well, I\u2019m just telling you, for the average American taxpayer, this is a great deal. Everybody is gonna be paying less, or everybody\u2019s gonna get a tax cut.” Everybody getting a tax cut does not mean everybody is paying less. <\/p>\n

Now, you realize here that every aspect of this bill is done under a premise that must be adhered to, and that premise is that every one of these tax reforms must be paid for. What does that mean? What it means is that for every dollar lost, quote, unquote, every dollar the government loses by having a taxpayer keep it, the government must reclaim that dollar somewhere else in order to pay for that dollar of tax cuts. <\/p>\n

So if the bill must be revenue neutral, if tax reform must be paid for, then simple mathematics tells me that if Washington is going to collect the same amount of money from the same number of people after tax reform, then what tax reform has there been? Real tax reform would mean the government has less money when it\u2019s over, by definition. How does the government get its money? By taxing people, primarily, and also the manufacture and sale of weapons, international arms sales, government has land that it buys and sells. But for the most part, the federal government is funded by taxing the income and productivity of people who work in the United States. The government takes a cut of everything everybody earns. <\/p>\n

Now, if the government\u2019s gonna reduce its take, i.e., cut the tax rate, the percentages, then the government ought to end up with less money. But if their intent here is to, quote, unquote, pay for this, what that means is the government cannot have less money after this is implemented. Now, I\u2019m dealing here with the static analysis. I can hear some of you shouting at the radio, “But, Rush, but, Rush, if they cut taxes, it\u2019s gonna raise revenue.” Yes, it does. But the way it happens is that it creates more taxpayers. <\/p>\n

A genuine tax cut, a genuine tax rate reduction, specifically, folks, a genuine marginal rate cut, will grow the economy. The reason is simple. More money is being kept in the economy. Less money is being taken from people and going to Washington. More money is staying, therefore, in the U.S. economy. And whether that money is saved or whether it\u2019s invested or whether it\u2019s spent doesn\u2019t matter. All of that is happening within the U.S. economy. And, as such, by definition, it cannot help but expand. <\/p>\n

And when that economy expands, businesses, many of them, not all, but many of them will also grow, and they will need more employees. And because they have more money to hire people because of tax cuts, they will create more taxpayers. And so cutting taxes creates more taxpayers by way of creating more jobs, and that\u2019s how the government gets additional revenue.
\nI\u2019ve often had people get stymied, you know, \u2019cause it\u2019s axiomatic, there\u2019s a line where this no longer works; there\u2019s a point on a chart where it no longer works. But when you cut tax rates, the government ends up with more revenue. And to a lot of people the mathematics doesn\u2019t work out. How can that be? How can Washington have more money after keeping less? <\/p>\n

\"\"The way it happens is and the way it happened in the eighties, and it happened like it had not happened before, more jobs were created and economic growth was skyrocketing and more jobs are created, and that caused more growth, which caused more hiring. And the cycle went on for eight or 10 years. <\/p>\n

And then we lived off that through the nineties and the Clinton years. And that\u2019s how. But if the objective of any government\u2019s tax cut plan is to end up where the government doesn\u2019t lose any money, then what tax cut has there really been overall? That\u2019s why this whole notion of paying for it, that\u2019s liberal talk. That\u2019s the way the Democrats approach government. And what it means is government can never get smaller. Government can never do with less. And of course we as conservatives, that\u2019s the objective is to make government smaller, to make it more efficient, to get it more out of the way, \u2019cause government doesn\u2019t produce anything. <\/p>\n

All government does is realign and redistribute wealth, but government does not create it. If anything, government destroys it. So the idea that after our massive tax reform plan here the government\u2019s gonna stay the same size, then how has there actually been a tax cut resulting in more money in the U.S. economy? But on the political side of this, they can\u2019t afford not to do this. It\u2019s a signature issue for the Republicans, 2018 midterms are coming up. They\u2019ve already close to blown it by not repeal Obamacare after seven years of promises. You know that drill. <\/p>\n

And I think they\u2019re very much aware that they have to do this, politically, regardless what the numbers end up being. There needs to be that grand celebratory ceremony at the White House Rose Garden where everybody is happy as they can be and the signing ceremony takes place and we announce that we\u2019re cutting taxes for the first time significantly since 1986. They need that politically. And they know it, which is why I think they\u2019re going to do everything they can to make it happen. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

RUSH: I'll tell you something. It's important. If we get rid of the Obamacare individual mandate, then we have gutted Obamacare. 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