{"id":23838,"date":"2006-09-29T06:20:16","date_gmt":"2006-09-29T10:20:16","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2020-01-20T11:00:33","modified_gmt":"2020-01-20T16:00:33","slug":"bill_gertz_on_enemies2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/","title":{"rendered":"Bill Gertz on “Enemies”"},"content":{"rendered":"
RUSH: It\u2019s a pleasure to welcome back to the EIB Network Washington Times reporter Bill Gertz. His latest book is ‘Enemies.\u2019 Bill, this book is chilling. This book is frightening. All the things that are going on with the terrorist detainee bill, the attempt to win the war on terror — and if your book is accurate, if you\u2019re right about this, we\u2019ve got people inside our own government sabotaging and revealing secrets. Is it worse than it was during the Cold War?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: It\u2019s pretty bad. In fact, it\u2019s become much more politicized in recent years, and the book really highlights the damage caused by spies and the kind of self-inflicted damage that some of our security and intelligence agencies have caused by mishandling of these cases.<\/p>\n

RUSH: All right. With which country are most of our secrets being dispensed to these days. Is it China?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yeah. Without doubt the Chinese are at the top of the list. From an intelligence standpoint, the Chinese are killing us. They\u2019re stealing secrets to the point where we don\u2019t know what\u2019s going on inside the communist Politburo in Beijing. They\u2019re also stealing our defense secrets, including submarine secrets, missile secrets, secrets about our Aegis battle management ships, and also they\u2019re doing influence operations —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, wait, wait, wait, wait. You say ‘stealing.\u2019 I mean somebody is giving them this stuff, correct?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Well, actually the one case I highlight, it was a spy in Los Angeles named Tai Mak was a defense contractor and got in on the ground floor of a lot of this developmental technology. Because he was a contractor, a lot of this technology wasn\u2019t classified. It should have been classified, and he was able to pass that information to China. Not only did the Chinese get the information, but they were quickly able to incorporate it into their ships. They\u2019ve already deployed two of their own version of the Aegis guided-missile destroyer.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, within the last five years — particularly less focus on the last three and a half to four — once it became clear that we were going to go into Iraq, during all the negotiations at the Security Council and so forth, I recall reading leaks in the Washington Post and the New York Times that had to come from people in our government (state department, CIA, or wherever) about the war plans and generals there saying, ‘It won\u2019t work. We have no business going there.\u2019 Is it happening like that in this kind of spying that you\u2019re talking about? Do we have leakers in the government who are actually conversing with the ChiComs both over there in their own country and agents here or is it all literally just being stolen because we\u2019re not classifying enough stuff?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: It\u2019s kind of a combination of the two. One of the cases I highlight is a former Defense Intelligence Agency analyst name Ron Montaperto, who basically gave up top secret and secret intelligence to the Chinese military intelligence. And, you know, he basically got off because he had friends in high places, but he gave information that really damaged us.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Wait, wait, wait, wait. (Laughing.) He got away with it because he had friends in high places?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yeah, it\u2019s absolutely astounding.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Like where?
\nGERTZ: It\u2019s an astounding story. I went to the sentencing hearing for Montaperto three weeks ago. He got three months in prison, and one of reasons he did was because a senior US intelligence official who was his friend — the guy\u2019s name is Lonnie Henley; he\u2019s the deputy national intelligence officer for east Asia, the same body that makes the NIEs, and he — wrote a letter to the judge saying that poor Montaperto was misguided. He only made a mistake, and he wasn\u2019t trained, and the Chinese intelligence officers took advantage of us. It\u2019s just an astounding display of official cover-up for a spy case.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Traitorous activity. Is that how this best be described?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Well, Lonnie Henley right now is under investigation but I\u2019m not confident that they\u2019re not going to just cover that up as well. That\u2019s the guy that wrote the letter to the judge.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, it sounds like nobody\u2019s concerned about this other than you.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Well, I\u2019ve definitely blown the whistle in the book. And I think, like I say, there\u2019s two parts of that story. And my point is, if spies can get into the government so easily, what about terrorists? And that\u2019s happening as well. I have a number of cases where Al-Qaeda people and Islamist extremists have gotten inside the government, gotten access to our secrets, and in a couple of cases have been able to use those secrets to help train and help Al-Qaeda conduct terrorist attacks.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, what is your reaction — knowing this, what\u2019s your reaction — when you see the Democrats, the Democrat Party attempting to shut down the foreign surveillance program, their actions on the military tribunal bill, trying to kill the Patriot Act. In all of your career of military and intel agency reporting, have you seen anything like this before?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Unbelievable. You know, the Democrats have traditionally been anti-intelligence, and it\u2019s reflected in most of their policies. If you go back to the Clinton era, you know, it was John Deutsch, the CIA director that imposed the most damaging rules on our human intelligence gathering. He basically told our CIA officers abroad, “You\u2019re not allowed to talk or recruit anybody who has an unsavory background.” Well, if you do that, the chances of recruiting anybody near a terrorist group or even a foreign spy are going to be very difficult.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Bill, a lot of people — average Americans busy going about their day may catch a newscast here and there, tune into the show now and then — are obviously focused on the war on terror and the Middle East. Here comes your book with news about China. I think most people understand that the Chinese are a communist country, but they think we have good economic relations with them and that those economic relations will eventually someday open up that system much as it did in the Soviet Union and was partly responsible for bringing about their demise. I don\u2019t think people look at the Chinese as a cutthroat enemy of ours, yet those who study it know that they\u2019re in bed with Iran; they\u2019re in bed with Hugo Chavez of Venezuela. What is the Chinese objective here?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: The Chinese have a very sophisticated strategy of undermining the United States. They don\u2019t like the idea that the United States is the sole superpower. They want to push the United States out of Asia, and they want to be the dominant power, not just in Asia, but in the whole world — and this strategy is not well known.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, but dominant power in what manner? Do they want to convert as many nations to communism as possible, or what do they want?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Well, yes, they do not want a democratic system. They don\u2019t like the fact that we have a free and open society, and they understand that they want this monopoly of the Communist Party. They want to extend that — and a lot of nations are signing up to that because the communists have figured out that the Marxist economic system in China didn\u2019t work, but they haven\u2019t abandoned the Marxist-Leninist political system. So they\u2019ve got a fundamental contradiction there, which is very dangerous because it could lead to some miscalculation, whether it\u2019s over Taiwan or some other issue.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Another question that people have when they hear stories such as those in your book: Does the president, White House, the administration have any recourse here? This kind of thing stuns people. They don\u2019t understand why Americans would trade secrets, sabotage and act traitorously toward their own country, and how can it be gotten away with? Does the president know? Is he fully aware of all of this? Your book contain information…<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yes. Yes. Here\u2019s what happened. The Bush administration, a couple of the heroes in my book are Michelle van Cleave and Ken deGraffenreid, good conservatives, served in the Reagan administration, and they headed something called the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive. They drew up a new strategy, and the strategy said: Look, we can\u2019t just sit back and wait for spies to come after us and then uncover them and wring our hands when we realize how much damage they cause. They said we need an offensive strategy. We need to go on the offensive, go after the intelligence services, and stop them before they get in the government — and do the same thing to terrorist group. Well, the strategy was approved by the president but it was sidelined by bureaucrats opposed to counterintelligence. And believe me there is fierce resistance, not just in the FBI or the CIA, but in the office of the director of national intelligence itself.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Negroponte\u2019s office?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yes.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Now, is this an attempt to sabotage America, or is this holdovers from previous administrations just wanting to sabotage the Bush presidency?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Well, I think, you know, I would highlight what Rumsfeld was talking about recently, that a lot of the liberal left Democrats ascribe to the Blame-America-first Syndrome. And that is really the dominant guiding ideology behind the Democratic Party, and I think that carries over when it comes to intelligence and counterintelligence, also when it comes to the war on terrorism. You get the sense that the Democrats want us to lose the war on terrorism.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah. Everybody does — and when you call them out on that, they act mock embarrassed, outraged, and anger. The sum total of this is that the ChiComs are upset that we are the world\u2019s lone superpower, and a lot of liberals in America are upset about the same thing. Their view is that our superpower status — Madeleine Albright has said this — destabilizes the world, and makes people hate us, and of course liberals are a bunch of hand-wringers that want everybody to love us and think they have the ability to make that happen with the force and the power of their personality. I think it\u2019s a hard reality for people to accept, Bill, which is why — and we\u2019re talking to Bill Gertz here, folks, whose latest book is Enemies that details shocking things about the leaks and the spying going on against us in our intelligence community and the cooperation our own intel community is giving these people. It\u2019s why people need to read your book. It came out of nowhere, Bill.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yeah. Like I say, this is an important expos&eacute; because everything right now is focused on the war on terrorism. I\u2019m telling people, ‘Look, you\u2019ve gotta be ready because down the road is China. Russia is going south on us, and –‘<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah, but are they going to attack us? See, people will not believe it. Are they going to have a military attack against us? Will the Chinese actually do that, or do they just want to get in the position of being able to threaten to do so successfully?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: No. The Chinese, their strategy is to undermine us from within. It\u2019s the old Sun Tzu strategy, that ‘the acme of skill is defeating your enemy without firing a shot.\u2019 The problem is that the elites in our country don\u2019t recognize that the Chinese are our enemy, and they view us as their main enemy, and they\u2019re actually —<\/p>\n

RUSH: No, they\u2019re a big trading partner to a lot of people, how can they be an enemy?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yeah, that\u2019s the argument. ‘If we just trade with China somehow it will become a benign power.\u2019 Unfortunately, it\u2019s not working. It\u2019s becoming kind of a giant fascist state with a military-dominated, nuclear-armed communist dictatorship.<\/p>\n

RUSH: What kind of reaction are you finding from people, unlike me and others who are interested in your book? What kind of reaction to it are you getting out there?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Interesting. One intel official told me that someone circulated an e-mail inside one of the military intelligence agencies with a one-word comment: ‘Ouch.\u2019<\/p>\n

RUSH: (Laughing.) Hey, I\u2019ve gotta take a break and I want to ask you about this NIE business; have you got a couple more minutes?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Sure.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Bill Gertz from the Washington Times. His latest book is ‘Enemies.\u2019<\/p>\n

BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n

RUSH: We\u2019re back on Open Line Friday with Bill Gertz of the Washington Times. We are talking to him about his latest book, Enemies, which is a chilling account of all of the Chinese spies that are stealing and securing secrets, sometimes with the assistance of Americans in the intelligence community.<\/p>\n

Bill, what can you tell me about this story that ran in the Telegraph, UK Telegraph on the 26th, three days ago: “China has secretly fired powerful laser weapons designed to disable American spy satellites by blinding the sensitive surveillance devices. The hitherto unreported attacks been kept secret by the Bush administration out of fear that it would damage attempts to co-opt China in diplomatic offensives against North Korea and Iran.” What…? This hasn\u2019t even appeared in the US Drive-By Media that I\u2019ve seen. It\u2019s in the UK Telegraph. They\u2019re firing lasers at our satellites. We\u2019re not doing anything about it because we need them with North Korea and Iran. Where\u2019d they get this kind of sophisticated equipment?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Well, there\u2019s no question that laser weapons are one of the key niche arms that the Chinese are developing. They call them “assassin\u2019s mace weapons.” They include laser-blinding satellite weapons, and, by the way, I reported on this last year.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Oh, sorry about that.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: (Laughing.) That\u2019s okay. But it didn\u2019t get a lot of attention at the time. There doesn\u2019t seem to be a lot of interest in China affairs in the other press, but definitely this is the kind of thing they\u2019re developing for use against the United States. It includes lasers. It includes computer network attack. It also included exotic, electromagnetic pulse weapons which includes the bursts caused by a nuclear attack that basically can disable all kinds of electronics.<\/p>\n

RUSH: It fries the whole system.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yes.<\/p>\n

RUSH: It fries the whole grid. All right, National Intelligence Estimate. I was reading an Investor\u2019s Business Daily editorial from yesterday, and I found this fascinating fact, and they were writing this in response to Hillary Clinton saying that if her husband had been given this kind of information that Bush was given on his October 6th daily brief, why, her administration would have did something about it — her husband\u2019s administration. Listen to this: “According to the 9\/11 Commission report, ‘There was no National Intelligence Estimate on terrorism between 1995 and 9\/11\/01. There was no comprehensive review of what the intelligence community knew and what it did not know and what it meant.'” So for six years, there was not even an NIE estimate on terrorism! For all this talk about how Clinton was “obsessed” with bin Laden and how they were doing everything they could… What is this NIE; how long has it been around, and why does anybody pay attention to it? Is it government agencies; is it outside contractors, or a combination of the two? Who are these people?<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yes. The national intelligence estimates are produced by something called the National Intelligence Council. And these are supposed to be the consensus view of all 15 intelligence agencies. But in most cases, they basically state the obvious. It\u2019s no secret that Iraq is the center of the international war on terrorism and the fact that jihadists are rallying to that —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Right.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: — is no big secret. In fact, a week before this NIE was disclosed selectively in the New York Times, the House intelligence committee produced a public report which said essentially the same thing. This is clear the Democrats playing politics with intelligence. They did it right before the 2004 election when they disclosed that somehow the Bush administration had let high explosives escape from Iraq.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Yeah, yeah. That was the New York Times again. Well, this thing has been out since April, and members of Congress saw it, and yet it\u2019s been held for release before the election, to affect the election. But you\u2019re absolutely right. When you read this thing it\u2019s, ‘On the one hand X, on the other hand, Y. On the one hand, if we leave Iraq, it is going to be bad. If we stay in Iraq, it\u2019s going to be bad. The Islamists are going to keep coming after us whether we\u2019re here or anywhere.\u2019 It sounds like it\u2019s a CYA document, Bill.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Exactly. And the problem with these estimates is that we don\u2019t have good intelligence on terrorism. If we did, we\u2019d have good estimates. But if there\u2019s nothing to analyze you\u2019re going to come out with two-handed assessments. As I say in my book, one CIA official summed up the CIA\u2019s problems in two words: ‘No spies,\u2019 and if you don\u2019t have spies inside of these terrorist groups, you\u2019re not going to find out what they\u2019re doing. You know, we know the first generation of Al-Qaeda\u2019s leadership. Do we know who the top leaders of Al-Qaeda are now? No, we don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Only when they put their pictures on the Internet for us.<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yes. (Laughing.)<\/p>\n

RUSH: Bill, I have to run. I\u2019m down to precious few broadcast seconds, but thanks again for your time. It\u2019s always a pleasure to have you here. You\u2019re doing not only great work; you\u2019re doing the Lord\u2019s work, and all the best in getting the information in your book out there. I appreciate your time here again. The book is entitled, “Enemies.” Have you got a lot of other interviews you\u2019re going to be doing? You probably won\u2019t need any after this one, Bill. (Laughing.)<\/p>\n

GERTZ: Yeah. (Laughing.) I\u2019ll be doing quite a few.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Good luck to you, and stay in touch on this. Folks, this book is — I\u2019m afraid of the impact it\u2019s going to have on you because it\u2019s so shocking and surprising, and nobody suspects this kind of stuff is going on. ‘Ah, we\u2019re a trading partner with China!\u2019<\/p>\n

Enemies, Bill Gertz.<\/p>\n

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All the things that are going on with the terrorist detainee bill, the attempt to win the war on terror — and if your book […]\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:image\" content=\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/bill_gertz_on_enemies.Par.0002.ImageFile.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"15 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/\",\"name\":\"The Rush Limbaugh Show\",\"description\":\"Excellence In Broadcasting\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/#primaryimage\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/bill_gertz_on_enemies.Par.0002.ImageFile.jpg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/live-rush-limbaugh.pantheonsite.io\/wp-content\/uploads\/bill_gertz_on_enemies.Par.0002.ImageFile.jpg\"},{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/#webpage\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/\",\"name\":\"Bill Gertz on \\\"Enemies\\\" - The Rush Limbaugh Show\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/#website\"},\"primaryImageOfPage\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/#primaryimage\"},\"datePublished\":\"2006-09-29T10:20:16+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2020-01-20T16:00:33+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/#\/schema\/person\/911066e449df26406b107ca78cbbde0b\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Bill Gertz on “Enemies”\"}]},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/#\/schema\/person\/911066e449df26406b107ca78cbbde0b\",\"name\":\"admin\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/#personlogo\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f18195e0073013fa0e16b040686c2924?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/f18195e0073013fa0e16b040686c2924?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"admin\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/author\/admin\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Bill Gertz on \"Enemies\" - The Rush Limbaugh Show","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2006\/09\/29\/bill_gertz_on_enemies2\/","twitter_card":"summary","twitter_title":"Bill Gertz on \"Enemies\" - The Rush Limbaugh Show","twitter_description":"RUSH: It\u2019s a pleasure to welcome back to the EIB Network Washington Times reporter Bill Gertz. 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