{"id":12826,"date":"2013-03-29T17:52:15","date_gmt":"2013-03-29T17:52:15","guid":{"rendered":""},"modified":"2013-03-29T17:52:15","modified_gmt":"2013-03-29T17:52:15","slug":"gay_marriage_and_the_estate_tax","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/admin.rushlimbaugh.com\/daily\/2013\/03\/29\/gay_marriage_and_the_estate_tax\/","title":{"rendered":"Gay Marriage and the Estate Tax"},"content":{"rendered":"

\"Listen<\/a><\/p>\n

RUSH: Here is Paul in Nutley, New Jersey. It\u2019s great to have you on the program, sir. Hello.<\/p>\n

CALLER: (garbled cell) Hello, Rush. I\u2019m thrilled to talk to you, and this is an olive branch from a gay conservative Catholic Rush Limbaugh fan and regular listener.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Love to have you out there, man. It\u2019s great to know you\u2019re there.<\/p>\n

CALLER: Yeah, you know, I think on the Supreme Court case, I think it\u2019s in conservative core values not to have the federal government fight an 83-year-old woman for inheritance from her partner.<\/p>\n

RUSH: That\u2019s DOMA.<\/p>\n

CALLER: Yes. It\u2019s DOMA. So, you know, Edie Windsor and Thea Spire were together for 44 years.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Right.<\/p>\n

CALLER: They bought a house together.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Look, that\u2019s a no-brainer. Once the pictures of that woman —<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

CALLER: What the case is all about is a $360,000 tax bill that was caused by the law that Clinton signed in 1997, the Defense of Marriage Act. So I think it\u2019s in our core values. We don\u2019t need make it any bigger than it is. You know, let\u2019s get the point out there that I think Clinton\u2019s Defense of Marriage Act, and Hillary\u2019s support for it over the years, and Obama\u2019s sound bites —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Wait. Let\u2019s stick with Clinton and DOMA.<\/p>\n

CALLER: Yes?<\/p>\n

RUSH: Why did he do it in the first place? What was the point of Clinton and the Defense of Marriage Act?<\/p>\n

CALLER: You know, the Defense of Marriage Act, I guess, was kind of a compromise. You know, as states were starting to enact civil unions or domestic partnerships, it was to say that federally, if a state enacts domestic partner civil union — in my case New Jersey or marriage in New York or other states — they still would have to pay federal estate taxes if one of them died. Okay, so there\u2019s Edie Windsor\u2019s case in United States v. Windsor, the United States Supreme Court case against her.<\/p>\n

The federal government wants to tax her $360,000 for the property that they bought over the course of their 40 years together and for the retirement plan that they together budgeted and saved over the years. So Edie and Thea were legally married in Canada in 2007. Had you and Kathryn got married in 2007 in Canada, and you had an estate the same size of theirs, if one of you died, the other would inherit it with no taxes. But in this case, the federal government or legal system has been fighting this 83-year-old lesbian for five years to take her inheritance.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, but see, this is where everybody melts, because the law was the law. That\u2019s the reason I asked you, “Why did Bill Clinton push DOMA? Bill Clinton\u2019s a liberal Democrat. What in the world was going on? Of all people to push the Defense of Marriage Act, why him?” DOMA does what?<\/p>\n

CALLER: There was a lot of dissatisfaction with Clinton back in the day. There were hopes when he first got elected. Remember the other thing that he gave us was “Don\u2019t Ask, Don\u2019t Tell” in the military. That and DOMA are probably the two most harmful things that have ever been done to gays.<\/p>\n

RUSH: But he did them in order to stay at 65% approval and to get reelected.<\/p>\n

CALLER: Exactly.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Because that was the prevailing public opinion at the time, which is not that long ago. DOMA\u2019s 1997, right? <\/p>\n

CALLER: Right. Now that Obama looks at it, he and Hillary Clinton have “evolved” to change their mind on it because it\u2019s politically expedient. But I just think if we can get the debate point out there that in this Supreme Court case, it\u2019s a conservative core value that there shouldn\u2019t be this unfair death tax — and if you look at the dollars that, it\u2019s $360,000. So if Edie Windsor loses this case, and she has to pay $360,000, she\u2019ll be penniless. She\u2019ll qualify for Medicaid and then, you know, in her eighties as her health goes downhill the government will be paying for her medical care. If she gets to keep the $360,000 that they saved together in her half of the house, she\u2019ll be able to pay for own medical care in her final years.<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, in Clinton\u2019s case, I think he signed on to DOMA for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons was that he didn\u2019t want to be accused of supporting same-sex marriage. There just wasn\u2019t anything in it in 1997 to be gained by a politician for supporting same-sex marriage. Now, the two women that you\u2019re talking about.<\/line><\/p>\n

CALLER: Yes?<\/p>\n

RUSH: The law of the land is what it is, and now sympathy has arisen.<\/p>\n

CALLER: Yeah, but you know, you say that, but it\u2019s really more complicated than that, because they were New York residents. So New York does recognize their marriage. So they don\u2019t pay state taxes, New York state estate taxes. They only pay federal. You know, so it\u2019s more complicated. And, again, I just think that if we —<\/p>\n

RUSH: So what do you think conservatives should stand for? They should stand for the idea that two people that are partners, though not married, should benefit as married couples do at the time to divide estates?<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

CALLER: Yeah. I think when you start off a conversation… You know, in my opinion there is — I\u2019m a Catholic. It\u2019s much different asking for the sacrament of holy matrimony in the Catholic, which I don\u2019t want, than to ask to be able to pass half a house that we bought together on to the other one and to visit each other in the hospital. So just like Sarah Palin did in the debates. I think it\u2019s fine to eliminate the death tax for same-sex partners and to allow them to visit each other in the hospital. You know, right now if I show up at a hospital in New Jersey and one of us is sick and we have our civil union certificate, they\u2019ll look at it and say, “What the hell is that?” Later we could win in court, but, I mean, we can\u2019t visit each other in the hospital. <\/line>RUSH: So basically you\u2019re advocating all of that be made legal but not marriage?<\/line><\/p>\n

CALLER: I guess what I\u2019m saying is that legally when we talk about taxes or visiting each other in the hospital —<\/p>\n

RUSH: Well, if these two women were sisters –if they were sisters — she would have to pay this tax. Why isn\u2019t it discrimination if sisters can\u2019t get married?<\/p>\n

CALLER: If they\u2019re sisters, yeah, I guess they would. You know, what I say is these are two women that were under the radar for 40 years buying a house together. What business do Obama and President Clinton President Clinton have in spending millions of dollars fighting them in court to take the $360,000, half of the retirement plan, and the house?<\/p>\n

RUSH: Single case. The problem is that the law is the law, and it\u2019s applicable in this case. Anyway, that\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. Look, I\u2019m out of time, sadly. I really don\u2019t have any more, but I\u2019m glad you called, and I\u2019m glad you\u2019re out there. I appreciate your taking the time. <\/p>\n

BREAK TRANSCRIPT<\/p>\n

RUSH: Let\u2019s take a look at that using this DOMA case here just a second, shall we, folks? … Okay, take the Widow Windsor in the DOMA case, as I mentioned to the caller from Nutley, New Jersey. If Edie Windsor, the woman in this case, and her partner were sisters, she\u2019d have to pay this tax. <\/p>\n

So why isn\u2019t it discrimination that sisters cannot marry in order to avoid this tax? Now you see, the approach here to support this for conservatives is, “Hey, you guys don\u2019t like taxes. We all think government takes too much money and government\u2019s too powerful. So we ought to come together on this and agree that Edie Windsor ought to be able to have her marriage acknowledged so that she doesn\u2019t have to give up any of her inheritance, like a standard spouse would not have to give up when he or she became widowed or widowered.” <\/p>\n

It illustrates, I think, an interesting point. Maybe… Let\u2019s throw this out there. Maybe the libertarians have a point on this. The problem is that we give benefits that we shouldn\u2019t give. Folks, I\u2019m gonna tell you something: The government starts passing out money, and that\u2019s it. You talk to any beat copy in a city with homeless shelters and the minute the word spreads, “There\u2019s free food,” the lines increase like crazy. You start giving things away… When people realize the government exists or think the government exists for them to live off of and to get money, what are they gonna do? <\/p>\n

Try this: Enrollment in food stamps is skyrocketing. Now, theoretically we\u2019re in an economic recovery. I\u2019m saying “theoretically.” In the media, and in the realm of low-information voters, we\u2019re in a recovery, right? To low-information voters who pay attention only to the mainstream media and the Obama-loving Twitter universe, we\u2019re in a recovery. Well, that ought to cause a reduction in food stamp rolls, and it always has. In the past when the economy was growing, enrollment in such programs like the food stamp program decline. <\/p>\n

It\u2019s the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program, the buy-beer-with-a-government-credit card program. Those participants usually decrease in number; it\u2019s not happening. As our economy continues into recovery (ahem), the food stamp rolls are increasing. Now, I know the economy isn\u2019t in recovery, so it sort of blows the theory. But just for the sake of argument, maybe the problem is here is money, that we are giving benefits that we ought not give. Maybe there ought not be any government financial benefit to being married. Then a lot of these issues might go away. <\/line><\/p>\n

Not all of them, though, because a lot of people on the gay marriage side are simply looking to have their behavior sanctioned with the official government approval of marriage. It\u2019s a quest, for lack of a better word, for “normalcy.” But why are there financial benefits in marriage? Why is there the personal exemption for every crumb cruncher you produce? Because the state has a vested interest in the population maintaining or growing, and an acknowledgement by the state that it\u2019s expensive to have children. <\/p>\n

You have to feed them, you have to clothe them, and so forth. So there was a basic acknowledgement of two things: It was in the state\u2019s interest, the society\u2019s interest, the population\u2019s interest for there to be — at least at bare minimum — a replacement level birthrate. Meaning: Keep the population what it is. Ideally you want a growing population. So the benefits were meant to encourage families. But we\u2019ve blown the notion of family to smithereens, or we\u2019re in the process of it. So that argument has sort of been watered down. <\/p>\n

In other words, the Widow Windsor should have to pay $363,000 she owed in back taxes just like anybody else would that isn\u2019t married, that inherits money. There\u2019s a 55% inheritance tax. But maybe we ought to say that nobody gets any breaks because of being married. No health care breaks, no tax breaks, no nothing. In fact, that may be the way things are bound to turn out, because we can\u2019t afford all of this anyway. We can\u2019t afford to give breaks even to opposite-sex marriages. Look at me! There I go, bastardizing my own term. “Opposite-sex marriage.” <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

RUSH: Here is Paul in Nutley, New Jersey. It\u2019s great to have you on the program, sir. Hello. CALLER: (garbled cell) Hello, Rush. I\u2019m thrilled to talk to you, and this is an olive branch from a gay conservative Catholic Rush Limbaugh fan and regular listener. RUSH: Love to have you out there, man. 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